Do you count GC feminists as LGBT?

[AdamRyan]

Apparently Kemi Badenoch is a bit confused about the difference, claiming wide consultation with LGBT groups but actually only meeting GC feminist groups.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1760281735990738972?s=20

It reminds me a bit of when Maria Miller did the consultation on trans rights and didn't consult any feminists.

I would expect MPs to be consulting both sides, but more than that I'm kind of offended to be described as LGBT for my GC stance . Seems unfair to both gay people and feminists and like the old anti-feminist "you are all hairy lesbians" trope

I think the criticism is actually very weasle-y. Kemi seems to have engaged with multiple smaller, newer groups and charities for LGB rights (some in person, some in writing, some have met with others in the department, just not Kemi herself, and some orgs have engaged via fact finding projects).

Kemi’s predecessors inc Liz Truss engaged with the big names but after the Cass Review and the various tribunal cases/mass withdrawals from Stonewall’s equality index it would clearly be a massive waste of Women and Equalities department’s time to continue to liase with Stonewall/Mermaids/Tatchell et al.

Look at the screenshot Kemi’s critics are saying she hasn’t engaged with any of the leading/largest LGBT orgs, which may actually be true.

Doesn’t means Kemi’s only engaged with heterosexual GC women tho, just means that pink news etc don’t think smaller LGB orgs count as homosexual representation!

Here’s Julie Bindel (of The Lesbian Project) on Kemi in The Sun:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25019605/julie-bindel-kemi-badenoch-trans-child-comments/amp/

And Julie on Kemi in The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/14/kemi-badenoch-must-terrify-the-trans-lobby/

How can talk to the 'right kind' of lesbians, when lesbians have gone back in the closet due to being abused and harassed by TRAs? This is the 'invisibility issue' all over again. Just because something isn't visible doesn't mean it isn't happening.

There is a known and clear issue with the visibility of lesbians because its become acceptable to say that males can be lesbians and that lesbians must be willing to date dick because otherwise they are transphobic (and may feel they will lose their jobs and careers if they are open about gender critical feelings).

You also risk talking to 'lesbians' who are male or actually bi or heterosexual if you try to talk to LGB organisations because of the dominance of Stonewall and the culture of fear.

Women's groups represent single sex issues and centring single sex. So they also are guarenteed, if they do have lesbians amongst their ranks, to be the 'right kind' of lesbian. These are the women with probably THE most to loose from the removal of sex based rights because they get the double whammy of the loss of sex and their same sex attracted rights.

Badenoch actually has a certain amount of duty of care to those she speaks to, in the middle of a culture where there has been so many threats, harassment and court cases that have targetted gender critical women. There is a fear that is being expressed.

In asking for FOI what are you ACTUALLY doing? Checking up on Badenoch or adding to that environment of intimidation and this narrative of making sure interest groups are 'legitimate' in their worth. (keep in mind the who idea of trying to pretend that those who advocate for sex based rights in line with the existing EA are demonised as Nazis etc).

Honestly this one of the most disengenous threads Ive seen in a LONNNGGGG time.

Here’s Kemi supporting Kathleen Stock in The Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10149859/amp/Equalities-minister-Kemi-Badenoch-says-appalled-treatment-Kathleen-Stock.html

In asking for FOI what are you ACTUALLY doing? Checking up on Badenoch or adding to that environment of intimidation and this narrative of making sure interest groups are 'legitimate' in their worth. (keep in mind the who idea of trying to pretend that those who advocate for sex based rights in line with the existing EA are demonised as Nazis etc).

Very true.
Also, in making FOI requests, as far as I have experienced with them, you have to be very specific about which dates you are referring too, and there is no sense that you can ask for as large a span of time as you want.

Would the FOI request in this instance have encompassed the full range of time of K B and her assistants’ engagement with all sorts of agencies on these issues over the last several years?

She has become very knowledgeable and that won’t have come about without a great deal of research.

That was relying to RedToothBrush Today 12:09

This is all part of the Stonewall's mega tantrum at their ability to grift being eroded by the concept of safeguarding children being prioritised again. They're also are furious that other groups are being involved (especially those including lesbians) as until recently they've held the stage (and got all the ££)

I'm still a bit 😳at someone objecting to a small number of groups with a safeguarding / gender realist approach being involved in discussions with the government? Especially given the excessive influence Stonewall etc have had for over a decade on every aspect of society.

But then every day's a learning day on here.

Dennis and Clive’s podcast (The Queen’s Speech) often gives an overview of what’s been happening re: the clash of homosexual rights and trans rights, both here and abroad, and what various smaller Gay and Lesbian orgs are doing to push back against it. There is a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on re: various parliamentary meetings/events/committees/consultations etc.

Gay Men’s Network have even been meeting with Lloyd Russell Moyle (🙀) re: the conversion therapy bill in the commons. Amazingly they seem to have made some progress with him (alas this makes for a rather muddled draft bill).

I just had a very quick shifty at xitter for a relevant Dennis tweet and accidentally stumbled across this profoundly homophobic tweet from Stephen Whittle (of Press for Change, self described ‘Architect of the GRA’). Thank fuck for Bev Jackson of the LGB Alliance who isn’t afraid to point out how homophobic trans rights activism is.

Re: that disgusting S W comment about gay men not being able to resist a FTM furry cub - Gay Men’s Network has liaised with the CPS about ‘sex by stealth’ transmen.

The SW comment I referred to was in Tathing’s
Today 12:09

That Whittle comment really displays the inbuilt homophobia in trans ideology that presumably drives the determination to "trans the gay away" amongst children. Vile.

Ugh.

What the bloody hell is wrong with Whittle? That comment is really quite a revolting mix of archness and rank homophobia.

In asking for FOI what are you ACTUALLY doing? Checking up on Badenoch or adding to that environment of intimidation and this narrative of making sure interest groups are 'legitimate' in their worth.

As the walls close in, their tactics get more desperate, and more transparent as a result.

Trying to make sure that lesbians don't exist, and then complaining that they're not being consulted is so blatant, it's risible.

Obviously, the only lesbians she should be consulting are those with penises.

Oh come on, @AdamRyan , KB's been in contact with LGB Alliance, Gay Men's Network and vocally supported Kathleen Stock of The Lesbian Project.

Just because she's sceptical of Ben Bradshaw's personal favourite blarneyspinners - Mermaids and Stonewall - doesn't mean his accusations have merit.

I personally am not asking for the FOI. I'm commenting on the question asked in PMQs yesterday. Maybe accuse Bradshaw of being disingenuous rather than me.

So he's lied in parliament then. I'll look forward to his apology for that. Seems quite brave to do it in PMQs

It's not bravery it's rage and misogyny.

Kemi isn't operating from any kind of ignorant, ideological viewpoint.

She has drilled down into every aspect of this trans ideology, and she's got the facts. All the bloody facts.

She knows about the children, the conversion therapy, the targeting of lesbians, she knows about places like the girl guides, girls' spaces, toilets, and the indoctrination of schools.

One's really on a hiding to nothing to try and catch her out, because, she's right.

And when you're right, there is no catching you out. People have to go for ad homonims, or masterclasses in obvious nitpicking or hair splitting.

Transactactivism will hasten the end of itself. I guarantee it.

He has been slithery and employed sophistry. Of course he’s brave enough.

It will have done the job of casting some doubt on KB who has shown real bravery and backed- up knowledge on behalf of women and children. She has started to be a worrying problem for TRAs.

That’s the main point of what he did.

Ben Bradshaw is the sort of gay man for whom women and their interests are irrelevant.

I suspect he’s been fed an untruth by his chums at the big Progress Flag orgs/Pink News and just has repeated that untruth rather than consciously lied in parliament.

Kemi herself has not met with ‘the largest LGBT’ charities and orgs but she and her office have met with smaller orgs and other staff of the office have met with Stonewall.

Also, ‘engaged with’ does not mean ‘met’.

He’s going to feel like a bit of a dick when he realises he’s stood up in the commons and presented partial information as if it were complete information and everyone can see his slip on show.

So bored of this kind of politics.

I suspect he’s been fed an untruth by his chums at the big Progress Flag orgs/Pink News and just has repeated that untruth rather than consciously lied in parliament.

Kemi herself has not met with ‘the largest LGBT’ charities and orgs but she and her office have met with smaller orgs and other staff of the office have met with Stonewall.

Also, ‘engaged with’ does not mean ‘met’.

He’s going to feel like a bit of a dick when he realises he’s stood up in the commons and presented partial information as if it were complete information and everyone can see his slip on show.

Exactly. What a silly arse.

This isn't the first time he's been less than honest, either.

Which smaller organisations?

I mean the Government had a pretty clear opportunity to explain whether and why Bradshaw was wrong yesterday.

The context here is we also know that Badenoch has recent form for lying (see her claim that negotiations are ongoing with Canada which the Canadian High Commission felt the need to confirm was not the case). So I'm not sure, between her and Ben Bradshaw that it is Bradshaw who is lying (not least because if he were it would be incredibly easy to prove he was lying).

So from what Bradshaw has said, there was an FOI asking which LGBT organisations Badenoch has met while Minister for Women and Equalities, and the 'answer' was Sex Matters and TransgenderTrend. Neither of which are LGBT organisations by any definition.

But since you seem to know she has met with 'smaller organisations' perhaps you can tell us which ones?

But since you seem to know she has met with 'smaller organisations' perhaps you can tell us which ones?

Are you too lazy to read the thread?

RTFT @PlanetJanette

(is anyone else having Deja Vu about Adam’s Miriam Cates thread a little while back?)