Lesbian members club to only allow biological women

[JanesLittleGirl]

"A FEMINIST campaigner is to open the UK’s first lesbian members bar that will only allow biological women to join.

The bar, named the L Community, is due to open in London later this year and will operate as a private members club so that it can bar trans women.

The bar has been set up by Jenny Watson, who in September last year was at the centre of a transphobia row after she insisted only “adult human females” could attend the lesbian speed-dating events she had organised."

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1615/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/1615/pub/1615/page/23/article/NaN

I'll get an archive link in a bit.

I cannot imagine the complications of transgender lives. I do see their need for acceptance is strong; but attraction is a biological thing. We are all orientated to our own wants. You cannot think yourself into an attraction or desire; I'd say if you did it would be psychologically unhealthy or possibly abusive if driven by a partner.

Yep. I wouldn't date a transman due to their sex and I wouldn't date a transwoman due to their presentation. I think there are many people like me. It reduces the dating pool for trans people and I don't think they are fully aware of that until transition.

I didn't actually say I have a problem with it.

I don't, actually. I won't be frequenting it and I don't know anyone else who will but I've not objected to it being established.

But I do think it will fail (if it even gets off the ground) for reasons that no one seems willing to engage with. It's like you can't distinguish between factual analysis of whether a business is likely to fail from an opinion as to whether you'd like it to fail.

can't remember now the article by a similar male writer with a TQ+ identity at the time who wrote indignantly about how lesbians were very kind, would chat away and be highly sympathetic, and then refuse to actually get their knickers off and dtd. The writer could not understand why they would not provide the sexual next step he expected from relational connection. I think the wording was 'they resist the penis!'.

Yes I remember it too, it was an early piece of peaking material for many I think. He also was pretty trans exclusionary himself, he wasn't happy that he'd only been able to have relationships with other males who identified as women.

But I do think it will fail (if it even gets off the ground) for reasons that no one seems willing to engage with. It's like you can't distinguish between factual analysis of whether a business is likely to fail from an opinion as to whether you'd like it to fail.

Who cares? It's not your money, is it? Let's not pretend that's why you're on the thread, to give business advice.

Man. There's lots of rhapsodising about men, and the good sex JS is having with them.

From the moment JS's previous relationship ended (with a woman, which predated JS's transition), JS planned to date men. I think JS had started experimenting with men during their relationship, in fact...

So the objections are from financial concern now🤣🤣.

“Oooh, don’t put your money in restaurants, don’t you know that 80% of them close within a year?”

Who knew single sex female lesbian bars were worse😱

PlanetJanette

I wouldn't worry. If they run into money troubles, they can set up a crowd funder.

Women everywhere can support them.

The thing is that anyone starting a new venture now is taking a huge risk of it failing because the post Covid night time industry is in a dire place generally.

Ive been around several music scenes all my life so know a lot of promotors/djs etc and all of them bemoan how tricky things are now compared to 2019 and before.

Sp good luck to Jenny for trying something that she’s passionate about. I hope it works for her.

I know, right? Such concern about this particular business decision.
Maybe it will succeed.
Maybe it will fail.
The key thing is, she's actually getting out there and giving it a go. Sticking to her principles and doing something she believes in. All power to her 💪

I'm not giving business advice. Thought the point of a forum was discussion.

Whether there is a sufficient market for this sort of venture seems highly relevant to the discussion.

But if you don't consider it relevant, you could just ignore my posts?

I think also that the younger the age of transition the more complications there are. This is due to the lack of understanding about desire as part of a sexual relationship and what that actually is.

Presentationally, transgender people can pass. But sex is something else. It's physical intimacy. Smell, touch, reaction. If you have not had such a relationship and have only really engaged with sex as presentation, ie porn, you really do not understand what it will mean to actually be with another person and you will not understand what they desire.

The liberation of lesbian and gay people was about accepting desire and love was their right too. That biologically this was something completely human and not a perversion. Transgender politics by its narrative threatens to take what has recently become better understood and repoliticise as on a reductive sex act basis. It is the opposite of the acceptance that homosexual people love each other. It is a degrading narrative which puts us firmly back in the box of sexual acts first, love second. A real homophobe in my view is someone who cannot accept that lesbians or gay people can have romantic love and reduces them to a series of sex acts and focuses on that.

Given that they've not even got half the money needed to set it up, I'm not so sure.

nail on the head

I think there are many people like me.

If you want to see how TRAs treat people who tried to make an affinity group for the many many people like you, search online for "superstraight".

I remember super straight. Fun times!

Ooh, is there a crowdfunder? Can you point me in the right direction?

I’ve got Christian fundie-bux to spare!

The other ‘lesbian bar’ (more of a Trans Tapas Cafe really) doesn’t seem worried about making the finances work, and that one is pretty terf adjacent (ie transmasc people belong in lesbian bars) so perhaps you have outdated ideas about the target market?

You folk need to make up your minds. Which is it? Lesbian venues have all been overrun by trans people and are dying on their feet, or existing lesbian venues are 'terf adjacent' and have no money worries?

Since we're talking about London, I assume when you refer to 'the other' lesbian bar you're referring to She - though unclear given its not like any tapas cafe I've ever been to.

She is not even slightly terf adjacent. And I think it's wildly optimistic to think that it has no financial challenges (though it is probably helped by its location, being part of a wider group of venues and not having a admissions policy that most lesbians disagree with).

We do not need to 'make up our minds'.

A lesbian is opening a bar for women only.

It is not your concern what she does when she opens it.

How can you speak for ‘most lesbians’?

It seems to just be based on people you talk to, which will always be limiting and more likely to be in line with your views already

It's as much my concern as yours. The concept of a discussion board seems lost on you.

No - it's based on evidence that lesbians have higher levels of support for trans inclusive approaches than most other demographics (straight men having the least trans inclusive approaches).

Higher levels maybe but majority?

Is there an accepted study that you’re thinking of?

And does it get down to specifics such as dating or getting together which could be more relevant for this bar

Transwomen who want to date lesbians are straight men

You know the drill, female people cannot have anything just for themselves. As a Lesbian I would totally support Jenny having days/hours for straight women to absolutely relax having drinks, socializing in a male-free zone with their Lesbian sisters.

Jenny's plan is to make it more than a club.
I'm quite impressed from the info she's shared.

I've no doubt at all that the money will be there for it. I don't think Jenny runs her business plan across the likes of random individuals on here trying to convince us all that it wont work. They've no insider information as much as they try to suggest that they have.

The good suggestions made by supporters here are already in the mix along with other ideas. It's really exciting. I hope it thrives, and that we see another venue open up North.