Feeling really low after being honest

[Notfeelingitwasworthit]

Training today. Gender identity. I was dreading it. Just keep your head down, I thought, don't say anything.
Then the subject of safe spaces came up and the presenter (they/them) said well it's actually not a problem at all, there are no statistics which show that sexual offences occur on hospital wards or in domestic abuse shelters and the other women are also really cool with it so it's not a problem at all!
I just said that this wasn't really accurate, we know women don't report sexual assaults or inappropriate behaviour, especially not if they think they're going to be labelled as transphobic, and women are constantly told to put up and shut up, so that labelled with the fear of being labelled a bigot OF COURSE won't mean they answer truthfully.
Obviously I was set upon. I tried to stand my ground but people kept going. Not just to my face but with snide comments throughout the rest of the day. I would join a room, everyone would stop talking. Even my closest contacts said 'well maybe you just shouldn't say it' and 'they do have a point'.

It just feels so lonely. It feels like you have a choice between being true to what you believe and having friends. Two of my closet friends would disown me if they knew.
Do I have to lie forever?

Ignore them.
I also agree men are more gender critical than we are lead to believe.
I know this from the job I do.

We are herd animals and to feel excluded cuts deeply. I'm sorry, OP.

Advice I've been given in this type of situation is - who was silent? Who wasn't joining in with the condemn a thon?

It sounds like you've dropped a rock into a pool. I wouldnt be at all surprised if you hear more from people in private going forward - genderist views thrive in a climate of fear and group think.

I often think it would be a lot easier to just stop caring and go along with all the bullshit or ignore it, but deeply seated pedantry and a sense of fairness means that would be very hard.

If your colleagues continue to treat you badly bear in mind Jo Phoenix and her recent ET and perhaps contact HR.

Men are more suspicious of other men because they know what they are like. So often seen women gush “ooh he’s lovely” while men eye roll and say “no he’s really not”. I’ve had quite eclectic boyfriends/ Dh but they all had this view of other men in common.

Well done OP. I sometimes think it feels like being in a version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. People I know for a fact didn't believe that the local cross-dresser was actually a woman are now pretending that they do. I think it's probably because they are "good kind liberals" rather than because they genuinely believe that men can be women but still it doesn't make it any easier to see people you know lying through their teeth.

OP, good on you for saying something, you knew the trainer was wrong and you said so.

I'd write as much down at you can remember this weekend. If anything is in writing screenshot it. The names of people who had a go at you what they said, who was around when they said it. Did anyone witness any of it but not say anything? They may be useful later. Then email it to yourself so it's proof you wrote it now whilst its fresh in your memory.

You can decide what you want to do about it all later when you've had chance to stop your head from spinning.

We need some more court and tribunal cases in this training re education stuff

First off : well done. Courage speaks to courage as they say.

Secondly therefore , I bet a few of the people making snide comments sotto voce actually agree with you. It's just they're annoyed you made them uncomfortable.

Lastly of course your beliefs are now protected in law since Forstater. If you think you are being set up for constructive dismissal you should take legal advice? I'm up for a bit of digging if it comes to that.

Ps - wot @Boiledbeetle says !!

Good on you for being honest. It is all now just propaganda- using false facts & information to promote a flawed cause & instant condemnation of those who disagree. And let’s face their reactions to your response proved you were right. Women cannot speak up without being called a bigot or TERF. There are numerous accounts of male assaults on women who do.

but as others have said a trainer should have allowed a safe space for all viewpoints to be heard and they did not. Maybe look at ways this can be escalated.

Also - for standing up for abused women and vulnerable children when nobody else will - fucking right you deserve a round of applause!

It was a very liberal crowd. The trainer was awful but others have been good. My issue is that a comment was made (not directly at me) that if people are not accepting of peoples gender identity then they should not be working with service users from minority groups, with no thought as to the harm caused by those who believe TWAW working with vulnerable women who they will then gaslight.

That is a disgusting comment OP, I would feel hurt too. As others have said, record it all accurately somewhere and know that some people in that room agreed with you and are afraid to say so. I
am so fucking angry that this shit is happening.

Minority groups… Like,

• Individuals with religious beliefs that preclude a belief in gender identity having primacy over sex?
• Individuals with disabilities which mean that accommodating that same belief in the primacy of gender identity may be difficult, whether in using pronouns or concerns re. privacy & dignity in toilets?
• Individuals without the money, education or confidence to buffer them from, or counter, group-think that disadvantages and intimidates them?
• Individuals speaking a second language potentially facing an additional barrier to understanding their rights & accessing services because of this movement’s mangling of plain English?

The one person in that room best equipped to work with minority groups was the one who was open-minded, professional and prepared to speak up in the face of inaccuracy and injustice.

In my opinion.

Maybe they ought to be referred to the judgement in Rachel Meades’ employment tribunal.

if people are not accepting of peoples gender identity then they should not be working with service users from minority group

That stance is an HR disaster waiting to happen, and not just because of Forstater.

Lots of religious groups don't believe in gay marriage or, in some cases, in gay relationships. Does your organisation believe that someone who is, say, an observant Roman Catholic, shouldn't be allowed to work with gay service users, even if they treat them entirely fairly at work?

Same with ethnicity. What about a Palestinian employee and a Jewish service user, or vice versa?

Conservative Christian man who belongs to a church that doesn't believe women should be leaders, but always treats his female managers with respect.

Once we get into wrong-think and policing people's private ideas, we run headlong into the Equality Act, as well has human rights legislation.

I'm sorry you were treated like that OP.

The trainer was wrong. A cursory google shows many statistical analyses of hospital sex attacks and breaches of single-sex wards in the UK
https://www.hughjames.com/blog/new-findings-reveal-epidemic-of-sexual-abuse-in-hospital-settings/
https://www.reading.ac.uk/news/2023/Research-News/6500-hospital-sexual-assaults-in-four-years-according-to-new-report
https://www.nsun.org.uk/can-single-sex-wards-prevent-sexual-violence-in-mental-health-hospitals/

So not only did the trainer deliberatly create a very hostile environment, they also gave false information that it is literally their job to know, there is no excuse fir them not having seen these studies and many more, and that false information is extremely detrimental to future staff prospects. It's no different from getting in an IT consultant who tells staff the only way to switch on a computer is to bash the screen really hard with a hammer and who then punishes anyone who disagrees.

OP, when faced with this shit, I bring up the children and young people aspect. I'm fortunate to have worked with Dr Hilary Cass whom I now consider a mentor and a friend.

We discussed the issue of lying to children that you can actually change sex was leading to irreparable harm and damage. Cite the immensely brave Keira Bell.

So I tell people that this bullshit is going to be as big a scandal as Saville - and they are facilitating it. And to honestly wise up as they are going to feel like such a bunch if dicks having pedalled this shit.

They might think they are liberal, but they're not. They're happy to throw religious minorities, sexually assaulted women, disabled people who need personal care, neurodiverse people, all under the bus to placate males with special feelings.

Solidarity, I'm GC in a super captured NHS hospital and I know how hard it is to put your head above the parapet. But you did what was right, even if no one listened, or they actively opposed you, you still did what was right.

'Start thinking now of excuses why you supported the sterilisation of children' - isn't that the quote?

Those are very good questions and I am going to remember them.

Ditto why were single sex categories for sport created.

The knack of turning it back on the speaker with questions that reveal the shortcomings of their logic is a skill I need to work on. Far more effective than asserting a personal counter belief.

Ah another good question… why do you support the sterilisation of children?

Any others?

Yes very good suggestions

If I ever need it I’m going with this type of thing

I attended a training session last week on equalities where the trainer incorrectly lumped identity and trans under sexual orientation, although she did say sex was biological and distinct from gender identity. I queried her additions to sexual orientation and sent feedback about that afterwards just stating what the Equality Act really says. It's important to keep saying that gender identity is not a legally recognised term, unlike gender reassignment which is covered.
Simply repeating what the law does and doesn't say might help in some circs as it's not about opinion. Any worthwhile training should refer to actual law or else what is it good for? Could easily lead to discriminatory practice rather than prevent it. And referring to the law makes it easier to talk about exemptions where it's biological sex that counts and legally that is expressly allowed.

These are really helpful. It’s so easy to be cornered and emotionally kicked at but those are top

Must remember them

I agree with all those who have said you were brave to speak up so well done. It all helps.