Starmer furious that Sunak should mention his definition of ‘woman’

[HagoftheNorth]

PMQ’s today, Sunak highlighted Starmer’s famous comments that some women have a penis. Starmer was furious that Sunak should make that comment while Mrs Ghey was in the chamber. Surely Starmer should realise that it is possible to be respectful and compassionate about trans people without parroting the insane lie that transwomen are women (because ‘woman’ is sex not gender)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68229785

I doubt it Starmer will be slaughtered

He is a coward, out of his depth, uses emotional manipulation, u turns at every stage and even his own party know this

Look at the press today - he’s scared of his own shadow

True

🙄
The distortion is;

1. making out Sunak wasn't talking about trans with his jibe at starmer. Oh really? What was that about then?
2. making out that Esther Ghey wasn't in the room so Starmer was political point scoring, rather than she was late so Starmer assumed she was there
3. making out that people are saying Brianna was vulnerable because she was trans, when anyone who has even cursory scanned the news knows she was vulnerable regardless of her gender
4. making out that anyone who has common decency and respect for someone grieving is "point scoring" and "exploiting the case".
5. making out the transphobia of one of the killers is just "one bad apple" so shouldn't be mentioned.

It's awful. What Sunak did yesterday was a disgrace regardless of your politics, he should apologise. He should have apologised when asked. Mind you that's me assuming he has some basic humanity.

Sunak needs to remember that it's not so long ago since he was unable to define a woman, and his own party was fully on board with TWAW. Some still are.
He's an idiot if he tries to push gender politics as a political weapon. His own house may have had a perfunctory clean, but they've missed the cupboards.

That is a good point, @Joleyne

Maybe you should reflect on what it says about you that you are so adamant to write off his transphobic views as "One person being motivated by transphobia to kill one person does not indicate that all children who identify as trans are only vulnerable because of this one example."

Sounds very similar to the NAMALT/ "this was an isolated incident" apologies used by people denying male pattern violence to me....

I'm honestly not being obtuse when I ask this, but I really need some help seeing this from the other side. People have noticed a tweet from Sonia Sodha where she says 'At least wes streeting can define a woman unlike Keir starmer" (or something along those lines). People are saying that this is just like what Sunak said, and is harmful, offensive and dangerous to trans people. And/or it's a dehumanising joke at the expense of trans people. Can anyone please help me out with how exaclty this is nasty? It is just that lurking beneath the surface is the unexpressed idea that women are adult human females, which excludes males from the defintion?

Excellent point.

Ok I’ll try again, because it seems telling people to stop accusing me of defending a murderer when I didn’t is triggering for people to report me.

The judge at sentencing explaining that she rejects the argument that he just came out with some transphobic comments, and that Brianna was going to be killed anyway:

I didn’t say they were going to kill Brianna anyway. I said they were going to kill someone anyway. They tried to lure others but failed.

Stop misrepresenting my posts. I said children identify as trans because they are vulnerable.

Again, that isn’t what I said. I said children identify as trans because they are vulnerable. The murder of one child by one person whose secondary motive was transphobia does not indicate that children go from not vulnerable to vulnerable because of people like him. They go from vulnerable to vulnerable.

I suggested both you and lemon stop misrepresenting my posts, it’s becoming tiresome.

James O'Brien currently climbing onto his sanctimonious high horse about this issue on LBC, if you fancy ruining your own morning!

I can’t listen to these dangerous idiots anymore

The discussion should be women’s rights and safeguarding not this emotionally manipulative agenda

(without having read the thread)

I'm glad someone brought this up. I heard it on the news and gasped. What a crass, point-scoring thing to do. It didn't warm me to Starmer at all. But then it made me feel bad because of course the woman is going to feel awful. So I guess it got the reaction he wanted.

(back off to read the thread now!)

Excellent point.

Lots of journos determined to drag the arse out of this spat instead of focusing on Labour’s decision to ditch its £28 billion commitment to environmental projects

ResisterRex
Reeves' response is especially noteworthy

Yes - I noticed Rachel Reeves grinning and laughing and then her facial expression change. She had obviously not anticipated Keir Starmer's reaction either.

Yep. Here’s to Starmer getting decimated over it

'Suank’s comment was part of a dig about Starmer/Labour u-turning on everything'

Exactly! It was an anti-Starmer jibe, not an anti-anything else jibe. And Starmer absolutely deserved it

Do you know what is really dreadful in all this?

All the qualities and varied aspects of
Brianna Ghey, seem to have been reduced to ‘trans’. It’s the only thing that anyone seems to be interested in.

This one thing, which cannot possibly have been the most important thing about Brianna (as I’m certain her parents will agree), has just blocked out everything else.

Are people not allowed to discuss issues like inclusion and behaviour support in schools, or public green spaces, or mental health support? Or anything else that might be relevant to Brianna Ghey’s murder?

Or are online activists and journalists just fixated on the ‘but Brianna was trans’ aspect and not interested in anything else? Brianna Ghey was a person - a fully rounded person whose life and personality cannot and should not be reduced to ‘trans’ so people can shout about transphobia online.

I fully agree with you @JacksonLambsEatIvy

To me the main point is Sunak had no need to bring it up, it's hardly novel is it he's used it plenty of times and he will no doubt use it plenty more. It was bad judgement to use that particular stick to beat Starmer in front of that grieving mother.

If people don't get that was inappropriate I guess it is obvious why they support Sunak.

making out Sunak wasn't talking about trans with his jibe at starmer. Oh really? What was that about then?

Women's rights. How very telling that instead of hearing that as a reference to 50% of the population you see it as a reference to the tiny minority who want to be identified as the opposite to their biological sex, and whose wants have been widely prioritised above women's needs.

I'm not claiming that Sunak and the Tories are staunch defenders of women's rights, but I don't see how anybody can pretend that a politician who can't even accept that women's rights are sex-based, not gender-based, is going to be able to tackle sexism in any effective way.

I do too and I’d go further and say adults should not use the term ‘trans’ for children

They are damaging dc by pushing their own agenda

Well Cheshire Police differ, they concluded that Brianna was not targeted for being trans.

If transphobia was the sole motive for this poor child's murder then why was it that the other potential victims on the kill list (can't believe that I'm having to type that) were not trans?

Why was it that the first attempted victim was not trans?

You are making things up to suit your agenda.

Poor Brianna didn't deserve to be murdered, not one of the 51 teenagers who were murdered by knife crime in the 2021 (ONS) deserved to be murdered.

Framing this death as a transphobic act is harmful and is disrespectful to the victim.

In the sentencing of the murderers it was noted that there was 'secondary transphobia' some of the language used by the murderers about this child was abhorrent and, rightly, this was reflected in the sentencing.

This poor child's murder should not be used as a tool to try to remove women's rights and it is extremely distasteful that you are using this thread to do so.