Starmer furious that Sunak should mention his definition of ‘woman’

[HagoftheNorth]

PMQ’s today, Sunak highlighted Starmer’s famous comments that some women have a penis. Starmer was furious that Sunak should make that comment while Mrs Ghey was in the chamber. Surely Starmer should realise that it is possible to be respectful and compassionate about trans people without parroting the insane lie that transwomen are women (because ‘woman’ is sex not gender)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68229785

If people don't get that was inappropriate I guess it is obvious why they support Sunak.

You realise that people who think this was a crass comment by Starmer don't automatically "support Sunak"? I can't bloody stand Sunak but it's not him who should be apologising.

Nope, Adam. I hate to break it to you but you can't police what we say - despite your best efforts - on any day. Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow.

in front of that grieving mother.

She wasn’t there. This has been pointed out repeatedly.

My god this story has legs of its own

I agree.
The hatred shown by some is repellent and flies in the face of denials of transphobia.

Lots of support for Sunak on Radio 5 at the moment.
Nicky Campbell weak as usual on this issue.
A brilliant woman on now discussing women and penises..

'I do too and I’d go further and say adults should not use the term ‘trans’ for children'

Agreed. The idea of 'trans children' must not be normalised

And I bet most of the outraged could not even tell you what Sunak's whole speech was, or the context of Starmer's comment.
JKR all over again.

"Hatred"?
Not seeing it.

I cannot understand why a politician should alter what they say in the House because the presence of one person.

If Esther Ghey should be elected as MP (this is purely hypothetical) should trans issues never be mentioned in the House?

Is this not one more way of controlling and silencing us?

The statement about Brianna or any child along the lines of ‘Brianna was trans’ is so incredibly concerning and a massive failure by adults

All this emotionally manipulative stuff fanning the flames will not help safeguard children, but the opposite

But Sunak would have thought she was

Good point

Would have? Or did? It’s just speculative nonsense. The fact is she wasn’t.

So what are you or @IClaudine seeing that's "hatred" or "transphobia"?

And no, I don't include using female pronouns for Brianna as that. Brianna was not female.

Starmer actually laid a trap to try and stop Sunak talking about Starmer's inability to define a woman. Sunak walked into the trap.

Her mother was not actually present but people are happy to ignore that and Starmer's shameless use of a child's death to distract attention from his failures. That is gutter politics.

She was expected to be there but was late. Neither Sunak nor Starmer knew this.

I’m interested, can people quote the ‘hatred’

Starmer's shameless use of a child's death to distract attention from his failures.

Yes! Why some people can't see this is beyond me.

This poor child's murder should not be used as a tool to try to remove women's rights and it is extremely distasteful that you are using this thread to do so.

I agree. I also agree with the PPs upthread who said that there will be those TRAs who will use this horrific murder - for which transphobia was possibly* only part of the reason for one of the killers - as "proof" of most vulnerable/most oppressed status of trans people and used for a further push on extra trans rights which are, by definition, an erosion of women's rights. There were other children stabbed and not one of them has had the sort of reaction that Brianna's death did in terms of vigils and the like. Why did those children matter less?

(*The judge said it was part of the reason for the male killer, the police had said it wasn't)

Well we beg to differ. Deliberately misgendering her is unpleasant at best.

I am not sure I have the time or the stomach to go through the thread and pick out the hate. Plus MNHQ has done some deleting of the more hateful posts.

Not really. Starmer, roughly 2 minutes BEFORE Sunak's comment.

"This week, the unwavering bravery of Brianna Ghey’s mother, Esther, has touched us all. As a father, I cannot even imagine the pain that she is going through. I am glad that she is with us in the Gallery today."

Perhaps you missed that.

Either Sunak is stupid or incompetent, although I never like to rule out both. If he had an ounce of political (or indeed emotional) intelligence he'd have dropped the woman bit. His point would have still stood, and that one aspect wouldn't have become the story. Indeed Sunak is such a rubbish political operator, he didn't even mention the widely briefed story that Starmer was about to drop his green pledge.

Deliberately misgendering her is unpleasant

You'll be having a word with brianna's father about his FB posts then?

The whole exchange was crass but I don't think Starmer has the claim to the higher ground here. He was too slippery to actual stake a position and call Sunak wrong so he had to fall back on calling him offensive. Appealing to emotions is the tactic of those who know the facts aren't behind them.

Of course not. Cop out

Women who talk about women’s rights and importantly safeguarding children are not using ‘hatred’