Janice Turner interview with Debbie Hayton in the Times

[CaptainWarbeck]

Share token link here: Debbie Hayton: the trans woman taking on the trans activists

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/df87fe47-3dd3-4f35-ac48-81f54aeb418f?shareToken=a53b2f201cdd4c204b9009b204cb1ef3

Janice neatly runs through a history of trans issues with Debbie including a discussion of AGP. An excellent read I thought and will get a wide audience as a Saturday Times Magazine article.

With regards to this article, I think the WPUK, Janice Turner, and as Tinsel wonderfully describes them, the gentry Left feminists think that men with AGP can be sanitised or sanctified by them just admitting that they are actually male and have a paraphilia. And I believe that men like KJ Went and D Hayton make these women feel like good, tolerant, adult people who are ready to discuss, compromise and meet in the middle on solving this issue, rather than giving into their feelings of discomfort, because meeting in the middle is what good, tolerant people do.

The problem with this is that there is no meeting in the middle with AGP men; their entire life (and paraphilia) revolves around boundary breaking and finding ways into what they view as women-only activities and spaces; they will not be denied and they don’t see women as full human beings so their negotiation with you is entirely a way for them to get you to eventually say 'Yes' and allow them what they want. If they have to start out negotiations sounding reasonable and self-aware in order to bring you on side, that’s what they’ll do and they have the patience to keep chipping away at your resolve until you find your position moving in their favour.

DH does make me feel uncomfortable and there's no mention of his wife being forced to be a lesbian now. But he'll do as a poster boy for the cause, quite important that he now says he doesn't use women's toilets even if its not true historically

Yes, this.

Also, when you speak to the real experts in the duplicity, the transwidows, it's evident that infiltrating women spaces, even articles that you know women, gender critical or otherwise, will read, is all part of it.

Having people discuss you and your fetish, is all part of it.

Making headway with them. Having them invite you to women's groups.

All part of it.

If Hayton regrets it, doesn't want to subject people to it, thinks it's unhealthy, is sorry for his wife and children, then why doesn't he just not do it.

Not plaster himself across any paper who'll have him, and write a book about it.

As I said on the other thread, if this is what escalation looks like what the bloody hell is next. Because there will be a next.

And if he is really in the grip of such an overwhelming desire to satisfy his sexual urge, that he is incapable of modifying his behaviour to protect the public, then that's what Janice should be writing about.

The question is when did he stop using them? And why didn't he stop using them years and years ago when people were telling him not to?

Could he actually not stop himself?

As I said, look at the behaviour, not the words.

Yes. When the person talking is sharing a story that doesn't add up, that changes, inconsistencies, changed facts, or even contradicting what they claimed earlier, then usually all said details are serving another very consistent purpose.

Good point that there's no mention of SH suddenly being in a lesbian relationship.

But he's the only trans person speaking about the emperors new clothes so I feel he's valuable despite shortcomings

JT has said she’ll be courteous in her use of pronouns https://twitter.com/victoriapeckham/status/1753740142156595471?s=46&t=EDiDhzusdf-5rWjRxR9Rng

I do NOT agree with her on this. A man who wants to be referred to as ‘she’ is anything but respectful to women.

Once you start thinking “AGP with a fetish” rather than “transwoman” things are different. I hope the penny is starting to drop with some of the Times reading political and corporate establishment. It’s out there in plain sight. DH is now providing sunlight.

Others, India, Robin etc must be furious I am not saying any of them are AGP, but Debbie has added a question mark. Has there been much push back from TRAs?

'Her honesty & realism about biology has cost her a great deal. For wearing a t-shirt saying "Trans women are men" she lost the chance to lead her trade union. Even so she is beseiged too by extreme gender critical feminists, some who say she shouldn't be allowed to teach.'

'Extreme gc' - fantastic.

Hayton is open that cross dressing is a fetish that he does for sexual reasons. I do question why it's okay for him to teach children dressed for his fetish. Happy to hear the explanation of why this is 'extreme'.

Okay, it's not a subtle piece of strategy. She really doesn't get it.

I'm not totally surprised.

AGP men have successfully gained themselves fucking civil rights, for God sake. They got every political party to legitimise them.

She doesn't yet understand the absolutely gargantuan nature of this takeover from men who not only don't respect women, they go out of their way to use them.

I'm glad to see the pushback on Twitter. She must know that the women trying to explain this to her and being furious with her, are not fucking 'ultra'.

She'll get there. I'm convinced of it.

Loads of men are completely open that they've got an AGP fetish. And they say they're men.

The only reason Hayton is being listened to, is he doesn't dwell on the pornographic, sissy fetish side. He just skims past it, repackaging the entire thing as an angst laden victim narrative, who supports women reeeeely

But Hayton has said that he doesn't mind being called 'he', so there's no need for JT to do this.

She needs to read this.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

If JT called DH "he" in the article then discussion about that would eclipse the content.

People need to see what is being said, not hand derailers a topic to derail about.

I disagree. The use of female pronouns for a man who admits to getting off on perceiving himself as though he were female, eclipses much of the good the article can do. I think it also is hurtful for his family who still use male pronouns for him. Calling him she is just playing into his fantasy projection persona.

beseiged too by extreme gender critical feminists, some who say she shouldn't be allowed to teach

Because manipulating and using children in a fetish is such a brilliant aspiration for a teacher?

This is Janice joining the leftist cool girl factions desperately trying to find a middle ground to occupy isn't it? And like CJC and Starmer, if she truly is being very clever and hiding meanings, then it should come with explanatory notes for us mere mortals.

I shall crack on extremely defending the rights of women and children not to be used for the sexual and psychological wibbles of men. Even the naice men.

“The issue of pronouns is becoming absolutist on BOTH sides. Stonewall demands even bearded rapists be called "she", GC ultras refuse to call any trans woman "she". I reject both positions. I never call male sex offenders she/her. But I will be courteous to those who respect women”

“GC Ultras”

Wow.

“those who respect women”

A man who repeatedly misleads his wife, and does whatever suits him whenever it suits him regardless of the impact on his wife, is someone who respects women?

Maybe we’re learning that JT respects women about as much as DH does.

The pronouns irritate me and Barracker's excellent article remains excellent. But it's not just that.

For me, the characterisations of trans widows is what is really gravely wrong.

Plus the apparent implied suggestion that we should be okay with making accommodations for men's fetishes, such as doing the things that turn them on - and so long as they are being honest about it's okay.

I'm not happy to play along with a man's fetish that depends on my discomfort.

It smacks of #bekind.

“This is Janice joining the leftist cool girl factions desperately trying to find a middle ground to occupy isn't it? And like CJC and Starmer, if she truly is being very clever and hiding meanings, then it should come with explanatory notes for us mere mortals.”

This.

And reading that tweet it crossed my mind to wonder if she’s got a Labour Party comms job being lined up in the background.

You have to ask whether a teacher who was so open about having one of the other sexually-motivated paraphilias like frotteurism, exhibitionism or voyeurism would be allowed to practice it in a school setting.

“GC Ultras” = "I'm GC, but Not Like Them."

Are we really now going to see more women spit on us as they agree we were right all along but they will do it all in a Much Naicer Way?

I’m beginning to think that there would be chickens who really feel you could totally achieve a middle ground with the fox. Or sheep who think we should at least try negotiating with the wolf and that we just have to see both POVs as valid 😉😬

If the couple are strict Christians you marry and promise to remain together in sickness and in health. Stephanie will stick it out because if this.

I found the article interesting. Mainly because it really illustrates what an unmitigated mess, for all involved, the concept of 'trans' is.

The clear description of the surgery DH has undergone is shocking. It's so brutal, and they remain with a permanently open wound. How this is allowed to be done is beyond imagination.

I wouldn't share in all the criticism of JT. I think sensibly she does much to allow the article & DH's words, speak for themselves.

The saddest part is the effect on SH & DH's children. What a messed up situation they both enabled.

The starkest thing that comes out is regardless of approaching it from a TWAW position OR an AGP one, it's clear that there are deep psychological issues underpinning the reasons men and women embark on this doomed quest to 'change gender'. They are being failed by the medical profession and society in general backing their delusions.