Just 5 trans women in women’s jails - Inside Time article

[IwantToRetire]

The latest figures, from the Offender Equalities Annual Report, related to March 2023. In March 2022 there were 162 trans women in male jails and six in female jails. Trans women who have had their new gender legally recognised with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) are not included in the figures. There were 13 prisoners with GRCs, but the report did not specify whether they were trans women or trans men.

https://insidetime.org/newsround/just-5-trans-women-in-womens-jails/

And did you ask every single woman incarcerated with the man if it was a problem for them?

@Boiledbeetle being as they were happily exchanging hair accessories and make up with them, the non verbal evidence was clear. Why would you ask the whole prison when most prisoners are confined to one floor of one wing so associate with 40 other prisoners at best?

That shows a worrying lack of understanding of social dynamics, for prison staff.

Because it's a women's prison and they shouldn't have to share it with a man regardless of whether he's had his dick chopped off or not and they have a bloody right to know. And prisoners could end up being moved.

No woman should have to be in the female estate with a man. Not one not ever.

Pray do tell, do you have more experience in this area?

Appropriate CHOICE.

Interesting perspective.

CHOICE!

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

Because it's a women's prison and they shouldn't have to share it with a man regardless of whether he's had his dick chopped off or not and they have a bloody right to know. And prisoners could end up being moved.

No woman should have to be in the female estate with a man. Not one not ever.

Why are you insisting on speaking on behalf of marginalised women? Have they designated you as their spokesperson? Have you even met any prisoners?

“Just”

why do you assume I've never been in prison?

Cripes!

why do you assume I've never been in prison?

Because people that have been to prison or have worked in prison do not waste their time pearl clutching over nonsense like this 😉

That's an interesting take!

Thou shalt not speak on behalf of the marginalised.

Shuts down the entire EDI industry in a stroke.

Pearl clutching!

I know quite a lot of prisoners and have a reasonably decent understanding of prisoner dynamics, especially around uneven power dynamics. I've seen vulnerable prisoners fawn all over an individual with much more perceived power, to try and deflect any potential threat.

I'm not saying that's what happened in your situation. But is it possible that it MIGHT have been?

And surely also themselves as they’re talking on behalf of all female prisoners in the female prison estate as a man being “not a problem” 🤨

Yes, we've hit an implosion point there!

Choice!

And don't speak.

First time I was locked in a cell I was 10. Last time I was in a prison cell I was in my 30s.

I beg your fucking pardon? I've worked in HMP for 11 years, I am senior within my establishment, and I bloody DO care about "nonsense like this". There are many senior managers in HMP who are still fighting this.

Did you take your pearls in to clutch though, were you given that CHOICE?

Lauren Jeska is always the one I think of, an extremely vulnerable, long transitioned person who apparently is in the female estate. Reading about them always suggests to me that they are neurodiverse but I don't know that.

Who also attempted murder, leaving their victim with life changing injuries. I've made various attempts to understand how many women are in prison for attempted murder but I find the stats difficult to tease apart. Not surprisingly perhaps as the numbers are quite small for each crime so potentially individuals could become identifiable.

I'm really amazed to hear that as long as you enjoy chatting about hair accessories, if convicted you should be in female prisons. I don't and have never assumed that female prisoners keep transwomen at arm's length. I do think that the dynamics of having a small subset of male prisoners in female prisons are complex and, fundamentally, not for the women's benefit.

I beg your fucking pardon? I've worked in HMP for 11 years, I am senior within my establishment, and I bloody DO care about "nonsense like this". There are many senior managers in HMP who are still fighting this.

Of course you are 😁 and if you are, you are part of the problem I'm afraid. Those of us that actually give a shit are campaigning for more trans wings, not to lock vulnerable people up with sex offenders on VP wings.

Hair accessories.

Wll that's encouraging for the men.

I'm certainly not going to give you my employee number, but I assure you that I have certainly worked for HMP for a very long time and don't feel the need to embroider that.

I notice you didn't bother addressing my question about power dynamics and the tendency to fawn. Have you ever seen that behaviour on any of the female wings and VP units you know about?

Also, why are you "campaigning " for more trans wings? The wing at Downview is not well-received, I understand. There are more TWs at Littlehey and none of them** are interested in going to Downview.

**caveat - very informal poll carried out in the prison 2.5 years ago.

By the sound of it, yes.

I agree with PonyPatter that appeasement and alliance formation (which may be positive or negative) is a common motivation for gift giving and resource sharing in primate social structures with unequal power dynamics. It can be a sign of affection (in itself potentially problematic in this scenario) and friendship, but is definitely not proof of it.

Isn’t it the same old question but different scenario.

How many women who are not ok with it does it become not ok?

1 woman? 10? 50?

There is a road I cross everyday to take my kids to school. It’s a dangerous road, 50mph duel carriage way with a pedestrian crossing. Cares regularly go through a red light. Yet it is the main root for a number of primary school kids. Lots of us parents have asked for a lower speed limit, a walkway, anything….

The Highways response - they won’t change anything unless there is a fatality.

I worry that this is the case for women in prison with TW (not necessarily a fatality but an assault of some sort) and then I worry that no one will give a damn. Because you know ‘you did the crime’.