Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Disclosure of non binary pronouns leads to less favourable employer response

159 replies

HermioneWeasley · 31/01/2024 21:46

It seems most employers have not embraced the TQ despite their corporate virtue signalling. Recruiting managers are giving the They/Thems a swerve.

https://x.com/caroartc/status/1752729073674027042?s=46&t=ujkdP8xmA6DNFeYFKmnldg

https://x.com/caroartc/status/1752729073674027042?s=46&t=ujkdP8xmA6DNFeYFKmnldg

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
SinnerBoy · 01/02/2024 14:59

IcakethereforeIam · Today 12:54

Right! You asked for this

Thanks. I'll refrain from posting a link to Jesus Built my Hotrod...

MsFogi · 01/02/2024 15:04

Not entirely surprising - I really judge anyone who puts he/him or she/her on emails, LinkedIn, anywhere and as for anyone who put any they/them ze/zer suff down I would be steering well clear.

endinthefrownz · 01/02/2024 16:20

anothernamitynamenamechange · 01/02/2024 08:04

I wonder what effect putting your star sign in a prominent place on your CV would be. Or writing "May Jesus be with you" in the cover letter. I wouldn't ever want to discriminate against people who were Christians or who believed in astrology or wicca or whatever. But to be honest I would look askance at both of the above examples (whereas I wouldn't if it was mentioned in a way that was relevant to the job. e.g. past experience involved managing a Christian youth camp or something. But if someone went out of their way to write Margaret Kemp DEVOUT CHRISTIAN I would be hmmm

A devout Christian doesn't need to put their belief on their CV because generally they don't wear a cross and make you refer to them as atheist.
😂

ArabellaScott · 01/02/2024 16:23

SinnerBoy · 01/02/2024 14:59

IcakethereforeIam · Today 12:54

Right! You asked for this

Thanks. I'll refrain from posting a link to Jesus Built my Hotrod...

Oh, no, that's a BELTER!

ArabellaScott · 01/02/2024 16:28

Poinsettiasarevile · 01/02/2024 12:12

It is getting better out there @BumbleShyBee@BumbleShyBee. I wasnt made this way (i used to be really sniffy about working from home for example) , i learned how to be an inclusive manager largely through making mistakes and having to live the pretty painful consequences of those mistakes and having had the pleasure of working with a few key individuals who really showed me the way. I had one amazing team mate who had some pretty profound mental health problems. She had incredible insight and was very open to discussing her challenges. Together we came up with a plan for how to manage when her mental health was bad and it really worked. Working with her gave me so much confidence as a manager, waaaaayyy more than any EDI training or HR policy ever has.

But to have a high performing team that can accommodate a diverse range of needs is a delicate balance. There absolutely needs to be mutual respect, and no one person or groups individual needs can trump that of any other and sometimes individuals just need to accept that their adjustments cannot always be met. This can only happen if there is a good level of trust. If some team mates feel they are made to lie by others, this just evaporates.

That's lovely to read.

Genuine diversity and inclusion benefits everyone.

All the genderpish waves a flag that says 'inclusion' on it but in practise it does the exact opposite.

soupycustard · 01/02/2024 16:45

Not surprising as it shows traits which aren't great to have in a team. It's not the being NB per se, it's that it shows an inappropriate level of focus on self rather than work. Unless you're going for a job in NB counselling, why on earth would it be relevant?
It's just too much unnecessary information: I mean why oh why does anyone need the pronoun crap at all? If I'm talking to someone NB, I don't have to use a pronoun - 'I'm making a cuppa; do you want one They?' - ; if I'm talking about someone, I can just use their name + the person isn't even present so how would they be offended?

ArabellaScott · 01/02/2024 16:51

Gosh, yes, it's awful how everybody in the world is transphobic, isn't it?

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2024 16:55

DadJoke · 01/02/2024 16:50

This is entirely unsurprising. There are plenty of transphobic employers out there, who are likely to be against non-binary people.

The same applies to people with "non-English" sounding names.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/the-resume-bias-how-names-and-ethnicity-influence-employment-opportunities

Oh pal. If you'd posted a bit of research which showed how employers view CV's which list the candidate's star sign, it might be even vaguely relevant to the point you're trying to make. As it is, you're trying to co-opt something entirely different.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 01/02/2024 17:05

I don’t know how you stand being around us terrible old transphobes DadJoke - almost as if you like us really ;)

anyway as PP have eloquently outlined its not remotely surprising that HR are not keen to recruit the they/thems of this world . They can see the world of pain on the horizon!

MrsTwatInAHat · 01/02/2024 17:23

This sums up a lot of the core problem around "trans" IMO.

Gender reassignment is officially a legal status and protected from discrimination in law, and I understand that. But more generally, it's perfectly normal and understandable to dislike or distrust people who pretend to be something they're not, or who expect others to pander to their beliefs.

If you employ a religious person you don't expect them to try to shove their beliefs on everyone else and compel everyone else to pretend they believe too. And if they did do that it would be OK to discriminate against then (e.g. not employ them) on the grounds of them being difficult and unreasonable. That wouldn't be religion-phobic, just demanding-controlling-twat-phobic.

If you were holding interviews and someone came along and explained that they're not disabled but like to "identify" as disabled and demand all the associated provisions, you'd probably think they were a nightmare and had a loose grip on reality and therefore might not be the greatest employee.

But with gender the two have become very wrongly intertwined. Pretending to be something you're not and imposing it on others is in itself the protected characteristic. So it's very hard for people like employers to separate the characteristic from PITA behaviour.

I know there are trans-identifying people who do respect others' right not to play along and I appreciate that - but they're probably being disadvantaged by the demanding ones too.

MrsTwatInAHat · 01/02/2024 17:28

It's not the being NB per se

NB is even sillier because there is literally nothing about an NB person that's different from most people, apart from them going on about it. Most people have/express a combination of personality traits and interests that aren't all gendered one way or another (in fact a huge number of normal everyday behaviours are not gendered at all, so they're "NB"). So that can't really be the basis of any discrimination in itself.

SinnerBoy · 01/02/2024 17:56

ArabellaScott · Today 16:23

Jesus Built my Hotrod...

Oh, no, that's a BELTER!

Damn! I missed a trick there.

I'm pleased* to see that DudJoke is making the same silly comments as the other day, trying to equate GC with racism, having failed spectacularly to learn from the ruling in Jo Phoenix v OU.

*Making twirly motions at my temple, with my index finger.

Rightsraptor · 01/02/2024 18:32

Has anyone ever expressed how wonderful it is to have a trans/NB employee? I'd really like to know what the positives could be.

I'd leave aside employers like Mermaids etc but I'm thinking of more mainstream organisations.

DadJoke · 01/02/2024 18:44

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2024 16:55

Oh pal. If you'd posted a bit of research which showed how employers view CV's which list the candidate's star sign, it might be even vaguely relevant to the point you're trying to make. As it is, you're trying to co-opt something entirely different.

Employers looking unfavourably on people with minority protected characteristics is a perfect analogy.

JanesLittleGirl · 01/02/2024 18:45

Rightsraptor · 01/02/2024 18:32

Has anyone ever expressed how wonderful it is to have a trans/NB employee? I'd really like to know what the positives could be.

I'd leave aside employers like Mermaids etc but I'm thinking of more mainstream organisations.

I work with a NB who is perfectly delightful to work with. The only reason that I know that she is NB is because she told me. She makes no special demands, is hard-working, thorough, professional and has a can-do attitude that many of her co-workers would do well to copy.

DadJoke · 01/02/2024 18:47

SinnerBoy · 01/02/2024 17:56

ArabellaScott · Today 16:23

Jesus Built my Hotrod...

Oh, no, that's a BELTER!

Damn! I missed a trick there.

I'm pleased* to see that DudJoke is making the same silly comments as the other day, trying to equate GC with racism, having failed spectacularly to learn from the ruling in Jo Phoenix v OU.

*Making twirly motions at my temple, with my index finger.

If a person with gender critical beliefs decides not employ transgender people based on their protected characteristics, it would still be direct discrimination and hence transphobic. If you rolled your eyes and employed them anyway because they were the best candidate, you would not be transphobic in your actions.

OriginalUsername2 · 01/02/2024 18:54

Backinthedress · 31/01/2024 22:59

Well the clear meaning is someone who likes to think of themselves as open minded and queer, but if actually faced with the genitalia of someone the same sex as themselves would go a strange shade of green and hastily exit the room.

😂Spot on

Rightsraptor · 01/02/2024 18:59

Thank you @JanesLittleGirl .

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2024 19:00

DadJoke · 01/02/2024 18:44

Employers looking unfavourably on people with minority protected characteristics is a perfect analogy.

Uh huh.

I might start claiming that I'm oppressed on the basis that I'm a Libra. It would make as much sense.

SillyMoose · 01/02/2024 19:06

DadJoke · 01/02/2024 16:50

This is entirely unsurprising. There are plenty of transphobic employers out there, who are likely to be against non-binary people.

The same applies to people with "non-English" sounding names.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/the-resume-bias-how-names-and-ethnicity-influence-employment-opportunities

Oh yay, he's here to mansplain to all us wimmin again.

I swear your other username if Felix and you NC between the 2.

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2024 19:34

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2024 19:00

Uh huh.

I might start claiming that I'm oppressed on the basis that I'm a Libra. It would make as much sense.

I'm afraid you'll find about 11 other star signs are actually more oppressed than you. Get to the back of the queue you Libra scum!

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2024 19:47

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2024 19:34

I'm afraid you'll find about 11 other star signs are actually more oppressed than you. Get to the back of the queue you Libra scum!

You might find that I only identify as a Libra. I may even be non binary star sign - a Sagittapio possibly. All star signs are valid!!

My pronoun demands are Stella/Castor/Orion.

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2024 19:51

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2024 19:47

You might find that I only identify as a Libra. I may even be non binary star sign - a Sagittapio possibly. All star signs are valid!!

My pronoun demands are Stella/Castor/Orion.

Edited

You are mixing your fire and water signs there which I don't think will help your chakras at all. maybe try life as a Sagittaleo instead?

Swipe left for the next trending thread