Disclosure of non binary pronouns leads to less favourable employer response

[HermioneWeasley]

It seems most employers have not embraced the TQ despite their corporate virtue signalling. Recruiting managers are giving the They/Thems a swerve.

https://x.com/caroartc/status/1752729073674027042?s=46&t=ujkdP8xmA6DNFeYFKmnldg

Some people identify as progressive and good.

But then I suppose it might work as a signal to someone that was actively looking to hire someone with those beliefs.

If you look at Glassdoor for places like Pink News etc, they don't look to be nice places to work, culture of bullying etc.

This has been turning around in my head all morning. I am GC to the hilt, but I don't believe in bringing your whole self to work, i believe in bringing only your professional self in. I love working with people of all different stripes, i have learned this builds the most capable and adaptable teams.

However working with a diverse range of people really means boundaries and mutual respect are incredibly important. I have worked hard to instill this in my teams. I really would be worried that an enby coming in expecting team mates to change how they use language would trample all over those boundaries and does not show mutual respect.

Personally, i think NB is bollocks, but i would happily use preferred pronouns (when i remember to). But my lovely autistic colleague I think would really struggle. She spoke to me a while ago worried that pronouns would become compulsory (i said over my dead body) and she did say she just cant lie and worries it would get her into trouble if she had to use the wrong pronouns for someone. I said we would cross that bridge if and when (as did our useless HR dept).

She started as one of my analysts, and only ever volunteered an opinion if it involved data. It has taken me 2 years of coaching to get her to be more vocal on other things, and she is so frickin astute, brings massive value to the team.

However she knows she struggles to understand unwritten rules and is always scared of breaking them. Bring in the illogical presence of an enby, and i think she would shrink back into her data. I just dont know how i would handle this as a manager.

What a great post.
The whole "bring your whole self" as opposed to "bring your professional self" to work is doing a massive disservice - especially to the young. As is evidenced daily, NB, trans and all the other identities appears to revolve around having an unhealthy obsession with themselves and focusing on controlling the reactions of everyone else. No wonder people are starting to give them a swerve.
As an employer it's completely logical to avoid an applicant demonstrating this. It's such a shame as the learning you get as a young worker from having to adapt to a workplace, different standards, a hierarchy etc is immense. I know there's a lot of evidence that those caught up in this ideology are limiting their dating pool - it will be awful for them if it also affects their employment opportunities.

SabrinaThwaite · Yesterday 23:22

+ + I typed hemisexual into Google, hoping that you were just taking the piss but no, it's a thing.... + +

I thought it was some strange perversion involving American muscle cars?

Chevy Big Block Gender now?

It's a challenge @Poinsettiasarevile . It is amazing how this new oppression has elbowed it's way to the top trampling over sex-based rights and the rights of people with disabilities.

To be honest, like most posters here, I'd assume that they'd be a nightmare to work with. Too much drama and the possibility of being sued for acting reasonably and normally.

If a pronoun CV came my way, unless it was outstandingly better than the others, I'd choose one or more with similar qualifications and abilities.

I have been very low key GC in work, mostly on defence (away with your compulsory pronouns) rather than offence. If anyone came poking about, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out I am a gender heretic. I am pretty senior tho, well regarded and been here forever so not the easiest of targets.

If it came to it, if they came at my neurodiverse team mates, I would totally go into bat for them. Their neuro diversity actually directly enhances my team, brings value in ways that others don't. One of the silver linings of covid was that i had the flexibility to be able to make adjustments that allowed neurodiverse team members to really flourish. I wont have that messed with, without a fight.

I have to resent the association with Brig

The Guardian is reporting that 47% of NBs report mental health problems. I imagine people with a history of mental health issues are less likely to be employed, even setting aside the “I am likely to be a tiresome gender warrior who will take up time that should be spent working) flag that I suspect goes with they/them NB pronouns.

AUTOPHOBE!!!

Being self-obsessed as a non-binary person isn't a bug, it's a feature. I don't think you can call yourself non-binary unless you think you're rather special in that you don't think sex-based stereotypes apply to you. If you think you are special in that, don't see how other people can object to them yet remain the sex that they are, then you're spectacularly unempathetic and narcissistic. Who wants to work with someone like that?

This, in a nutshell.

Sorry, here’s the link:

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/01/trans-people-england-more-likely-mental-health-condition-study

Poinsettia, you sound like such a thoughtful manager. Your posts give me hope that my very clever but very socially challenged autistic boy will one day be able to work!

There's an air of confirmation bias around either reaction isn't there

It is getting better out there @BumbleShyBee@BumbleShyBee. I wasnt made this way (i used to be really sniffy about working from home for example) , i learned how to be an inclusive manager largely through making mistakes and having to live the pretty painful consequences of those mistakes and having had the pleasure of working with a few key individuals who really showed me the way. I had one amazing team mate who had some pretty profound mental health problems. She had incredible insight and was very open to discussing her challenges. Together we came up with a plan for how to manage when her mental health was bad and it really worked. Working with her gave me so much confidence as a manager, waaaaayyy more than any EDI training or HR policy ever has.

But to have a high performing team that can accommodate a diverse range of needs is a delicate balance. There absolutely needs to be mutual respect, and no one person or groups individual needs can trump that of any other and sometimes individuals just need to accept that their adjustments cannot always be met. This can only happen if there is a good level of trust. If some team mates feel they are made to lie by others, this just evaporates.

Emotionalsupportviper · Today 11:44

AUTOPHOBE!!!

😁

We've been taught so many things by the new progressives: you can't tell what's in people's pants, penises and clits are almost identical, intersex is really common etc etc. All this is supposed to unlearn our ability to recognise sex/ prevent us learning it in the first place.

Of course we now know that so many trans people pass and are already quietly working in your team and you've been using their preferred pronouns all along with no issues. And in the future, when everyone understands that only say-so denotes sex, this will be even more common.

Doesn't the non binary identity mess this up a bit? Do the passing trans people who work among us feel pressured to out themselves when an NB joins the team and becomes the de facto trans spokeshuman?

Of course we now know that so many trans people pass and are already quietly working in your team and you've been using their preferred pronouns all along with no issues.

Really?
Trans people that pass in real life are vanishingly rare. If you are all using their preferred pronouns it implies that you've been told they are a trans person which kind of negates the myth that they 'pass'.

Oh I know, this is how I feel too Magpie!

I'm merely going by what we're "educated" to believe. Trying to make it make sense from the trans ideology POV.

There is no legal right to be recognised as non binary in the UK. This has been tested in court.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12974913/amp/Non-binary-American-loses-High-Court-challenge.html

Right! You asked for this

Being non binary is not a protected characteristic but, yes I agree. It was one experience and I wouldn’t use it to preempt judgement on another person.

If someone includes their pronouns this might be on the basis of the wider tendency to do sweeping over organisations. However, if someone explicitly stated they were NB this does have wider HR implications eg toilets etc.

Ooo string-backed gloves for my automo-love 💕🏎️

What thoughtful posts @Poinsettiasarevile, your team are lucky to have you.

I'm working with an enbie at the moment. She/they (her pronouns) is a pleasant, socially awkward and seems very insecure and keen to be liked. This person was not my choice as her application was below standard - but I suspect the identity parlour games actually played in her favour from a diversity perspective and she was given the opportunity. Sadly, as nice as she is, it's obvious she's not as skilled, experienced or competent as the other candidates taken on at the same time.

I'm not sure it's that kind to have put this person in this position.