Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

Oh dear - desperation setting in eh?

In order to register a child's sex, that sex must be identified.

All the parents of girls in a girls' boarding school are entitled to know that their daughters will be sharing washing and sleeping facilities with other girls - they don't need names - just to know that the school are following the law.
A girl undressing in the swimming pool changing rooms is entitled to know that the child next to her is another girl. It's only when schools have lied about a child's sex that parents get involved in order to protect their children.

It's all part of the long standing social contract that we respect the rights of others - single sex facilities for girls when undressed being one of them. There are of course certain adults frantically trying to remove these rights which is why women and many men have had to mobilise to safeguard girls.

Well, of course, @PlanetJanette, it depends what you mean by 'trans people', particularly with regard to this child.

If we take a trans person to be someone who has changed sex, the child is not a trans person; a fortiori not a trans child. So 'forcibly outing a trans child' is not at all applicable.

If we take the child to be a trans child in some other sense than this - he wants to change sex, dislikes his own sex, whatever - then 'forcibly outing' (whatever this might mean in such a case) might be wholly appropriate.

None of this denies the existence of the child in question, nor of anyone else, notice. It just denies a particular description.

The child may, indeed, just be making a mistake, one made by many soi-disant 'trans people': that of thinking it possible for a human to change sex. It would be wrong for others - teachers, parents, other children - to encourage him in this error; bad for him and his peers.

I wonder, @PlanetJanette, what you take 'trans people' and 'trans child' to mean? Do you think children can change sex?

forcibly outing a trans child is a heinous thing to do.

'Forcibly outing' in this context, means telling other people that you know that this person is lying about their sex.

So it is a 'heinous thing' to tell other people when you know someone else is lying?

Yes but to the person who is trans that is outing them which could be very dangerous for them. It is heinous when it is done with malicious intent which is what you are insinuating.
Would it be ‘not lying to someone’ if you told a Christian that God doesn’t exist? No -as it’s respecting that person and their beliefs which is what should happen with this trans child.

@PlanetJanette

Here we have a trans child who is not using single sex spaces etc or indeed doing anything that might be characterised as infringing on the rights of women and girls.

The definition of Women and Girls is itself a single sex space.

If we entertain even for one moment the suggestion that a male person might be a woman or a girl simply because of what is in his mind, we do harm to every single woman and girl on the planet by reducing their individual and varied experiences as people with female bodies and a wonderful variety of mind to a limited gendered stereotype of mind.

It will fall on deaf ears I'm sure, but no - forcibly outing a trans child is a heinous thing to do.

The parents and teachers should never have enabled this situation by lying to all the other children. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Why would it be 'dangerous' for this child if the other children and their parents knew that they were lying about their sex?

Why do you say that if one of the parents knew this that telling the other parents must be being 'done with malicious intent'? I would assume that it was done simply to inform the other parents about the actual sex of this child.

Because the other parents nor the other children need to know this. You are outing them to their community and friends - this can lead to bullying and mental health issues.
The OP has already clarified about the toilets situation so that’s not an issue. There are no issues here. You just want to out this child for no reason which is wrong and malicious.
Would you out a child/parents if they were in a gay relationship? No as that’s malicious and that is what you are suggesting on doing to A CHILD.

All of this outing malarkey assumes humans don't have eyes of course.

There are no issues here. You just want to out this child for no reason which is wrong and malicious.

There is a big divide between boy friendship groups and girl friendship groups. I'm not saying there is no crossover, but boys generally choose boys as friends and girls choose girls as friends. Toilets and changing rooms aside, and assuming they don't actually know this child is a boy, it's really not fair on the other girls to put them in the position of welcoming this child into their friendship groups, their parties, their secrets, possibly discussions about puberty, on the assumption that the child is a girl. They're being lied to about something really, really fundamental.

The child needs to know that they can't change sex. The adults who are lying to this child and telling them that they can are going to cause this child more mental health issues than they already must have if they think they are the opposite sex. Other people correctly recognising their sex are not to blame for this.

Why do you describe correctly recognising this child's sex as 'outing' them?

And yes, children do need to know the sex of their friends. When girls are talking to their friends about things like periods, how do you think they will feel when they find out that one of these 'girls' is actually a boy?

Pretending to children that a child has changed sex is abusive to that child, who might believe that fantasy to be possible, and abusive to the other children who are friends and classmates of that child and who are being lied to about their sex.

What? So because kids don’t see any barriers for friendships you’re assuming they are being lied to? They’re kids being kids

We don’t know if the child thinks they can change sex - they know that they are trans and that should be supported.
I don’t know about you but I’ve never spoken to any female friends about my periods - I’ve spoken about periods in front of males in my family and it was no issue. It’s anatomy. You can have male and female friends and it can be purely platonic.
What about if another child ‘outed’ to another about Santa not being real?
A child may get over that after days or weeks. But a child being othered and outed by their friends for their sexuality and being trans is incredibly damaging to them and shouldn’t be done maliciously.
It is malicious, however you phrase it, to out a child as it’s ‘scientific’

The bottom line line is that if this child is transgender, it will come out sooner or later. Whether the OP precipitates it or not. What plans do the SLT have in place for managing the distress for the child, the rest of the pupils and all the parents?

Year 8. So, age 11-13ish. "Kids being kids," you say, as if they were 5 years old. No, they are on the cusp of puberty - some may already have undergone puberty. Of course some girls will have friends who are boys, but I'll bet you anything those aren't the friends they choose to compare notes on tampons, or blood leakage, or period pains, or breast growth and bra sizes.

@GreenYoshi12
We don’t know if the child thinks they can change sex - they know that they are trans and that should be supported.

What does 'they are trans' mean? How are you defining 'trans'? In what way should a child's belief that 'they are trans' be supported?

BY NOT OUTING THEM TO THEIR PEERS!!! ffs

Kids don't like being lied to about this, whatever their age. This thread was about a much younger child (a boy who started school aged 4, pretending to be a girl).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4994208-4-year-old-boy-started-primary-school-as-a-girl?page=1

This is from the Telegraph article (link in the other thread)

She said that after repeatedly asking her child if something was wrong, her child told her earlier this month that she knew “the secret” that her classmate was really a boy.

The mother said her daughter was “distraught” that her friend had “lied” to her and that she had been “holding hands with a boy”.

She said the trans-identifying child had been “flashing their willy” at the girls.

You haven't answered my questions.

What does 'they are trans' mean? How are you defining 'trans'?

I answered your last question.
‘they are trans’ is someone who is trans. Either a boy being more comfortable as a girl or a girl being more comfortable as a boy.

online the definition of ‘trans’ is:

denoting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond with the sex registered for them at birth; transgender.

Either a boy being more comfortable as a girl or a girl being more comfortable as a boy.

Can you explain what this means?

And a definition of 'gender identity' would be useful, too.

They feel more comfortable identifying as the opposite gender to the genitalia that they have. I don’t know what this is like and how the thoughts work as I am not trans myself.
Gender identity is the identity they feel and the closeness to a specific gender that they believe they align with.

So a boy is more comfortable as a girl only if no-one knows he's a boy? Obviously a large number of people do know he's a boy, not least his parents. But any one who is aware he's a boy is "outing" him?

How does this actually work in reality?

How does this work in regards to things like swimming lessons and residential trips? I don’t give a monkeys how a 12 year old boy is presenting, I wouldn’t want them sleeping in the same room as my 12 yo girl who is oblivious to the fact they are sharing with a biological boy.

it’s really unfair on the child too who must be panicked now puberty is setting in about how to keep this secret.

No - other people can know that but if the person themselves tells others. It is malicious to tell someone a secret about another without their consent ie: ‘they’re a boy’
You can be aware about someone’s sex without telling other people that - like you know what you’re getting your child for Christmas but not telling them what they’re getting before the day.