Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

They will not know words like "genitals" and "chromosomes" but they'll know that "boys" and "girls" have specific meanings. If, like me, they grew up sharing baths with a younger sibling of the opposite sex, they will know quite early on that boys have different bits to wee out of.

I do not think it right to lie to children about this.

Swimming organisations thought that at one stage - and had to reverse ferret very quickly when the grim consequences for teenage girls was exposed

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12350741/Parents-raised-concerns-transgender-pool-official-using-womens-changing-room-time-young-girls.html

A child's class mates have no more right to know what genitals

Nonsense.

There are very good reasons why parents really do need to know what sex their 12 year old child's friends are. It's all very well for a school to give a child a separate toilet but if kids come over to play parents need to know if it's a mixed sex or single sex group before a gaggle of 12+ year olds head upstairs to their child's room.

OP has already said this child uses separate facilities for changing or using the toilet.

Why?

Um if you can't figure that out for yourself I'm not going to explain!

That was in response to your comment that A child's class mates have no more right to know what genitals or chromosomes their classmates have.....

Of course children need to be able to accurately sex their peers - just as adults do. Look at what happened in those swimming changing rooms and you'll be able to work out why.

I suspect that may be because your logic would fall apart pretty quickly if you did.

So who in your workplace has confirmed for you what genitals your co-workers have?

Your experience and awareness of the range of 12 year olds' behaviour must be rather different from mine.

This is about (ahem) data not logic. And no, I'm not going in detail, but all of us were once 12-14 years ourselves and most of us here are parents, and I think most of us know what I'm talking about even if you really can't imagine!

😂
In schools the sex of children is identified - that's the law.
When supervising changing rooms we ensure that they're separated by sex. And ensure that men are not able to wander into where girls are undressing for swimming etc.
On residentials, sleeping accommodation is organised according to sex.
When teaching sex education knowing the sex (and age) of the children in the class is important. I've taught both mixed sex and single sex groups - advantages and disadvantages to both. The point is that knowing the sex of children is a critical factor.

We've never discussed it in terms of genitals - that an odd phrase much beloved of transactivists it appears.

I certainly can imagine. Which is why I don't think you have a logical basis for this, but I want to understand precisely why you think you need to know the biological sex of children coming to your home because I respond.

Not sure why that's an unreasonable ask?

What is the worry specifically? Is it sexual activity? Pregnancy? STIs?

What law says the biological sex of children must be 'identified'? And 'identified' to whom?

Precisely? No. Feel free to make up your own precise and logical arguments about why it's all ticketyboo and parents don't need to know or care, or else feel free not to respond further, I don't mind which, but I already said I wasn't going into detail and I'm not.

🙄
Sex is a legally required part of the school admission register under the Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006, 5 (1)(b).

As an aside, I think it is likely that the classmates of this child know or strongly suspect the sex of this child. Thus they will be aware that the teachers are lying to them.

Does it make it appropriate to out her if you think that some people suspect she might be transgender?

You said the law required that biological sex be identified, not registered. There's no suggestion from the OP that the school is unaware that this child is trans.

What's at issue here is whether anyone else - parents, children - has the right to know that.

I trust you can't back up any claim that they have such a right?

outing them would be a horrific and unjestified response

When we call out fraud, or deceit or lies, is this also horrific? Because that's what these parents are doing. They are demanding schools lie so they can deceive other parents and children about the sex of their child because they know other parents don't want their daughters to have sleepovers with boys or to play sports with boys or change in front of boys. If these parents truly believed that their boy had magically transformed into a girl, they wouldn't try to hide this miracle.

Fair enough.

Here's how the conversation would have gone if you'd simply explained your views.

You'd have said that the reason you have a right to know the biological sex of a child entering your home and spending time with your DD is because of the potential sexual activity that arises when kids hit puberty, and you would presumably exert a stricter set of rules if your DD brought home a boy compared to a girl.

But of course the same logic applies to your 'right' to know the sexual orientation of someone your DD brings home. And I don't think, even on this board, anyone is crazy enough to claim a right to know whether a particular child is gay or not.

I certainly can imagine. Which is why I don't think you have a logical basis for this, but I want to understand precisely why you think you need to know the biological sex of children coming to your home because I respond.

Not sure why that's an unreasonable ask?

What is the worry specifically? Is it sexual activity? Pregnancy? STIs?

It's funny you bring this up because this is what got my DD to peak at 18. She had several they/them friends and one night she said she wanted a they/them friend who I didn't know to spend the night as they were going clubbing. I asked her if it was a man or woman and she said "woman." I said, "cool. Have fun and yes to the sleepover."

She came back me about an hour later and said, very thoughtfully as a lightbulb had went off, "you want to know if my friends are men or women because the advice you give me and the house rules are different for men than women because, well, I'm safer with women than men you don't know and you wouldn't want an unknown man to sleep overnight in our house. You aren't interrogating their pronouns. You just want me safe."

Yup. That did it. She was by then, sadly, fully aware of the risk calculations women make around men.

She's been fully peaked now for some time. If my young, kind, socially conscious and justice oriented teen daughter could figure it out, why can't mature posters on MN?!?!

I hope you're not embarking on a screen writing career because that invented dialogue is clunky AF.

My DD is bisexual, but I still allow her female friends to spend the night, but not her male friends. One, boys are stronger. Two, males commit 99.9% of sexual assault. Three, my DD won't get pregnant from a girl.

Oh, and four. I have a younger DD who shouldn't be subjected to strange boys or men in our house overnight. No way.

@PlanetJanette I must be winning this argument because the best you got are cheap digs irrelevant to the topic.