Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #5

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3
Thread #4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4991883-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-4

The panel will take a view on what the witness was not able to answer i.e.

I don't know
Not in their head
Don't know their thoughts
Can't comment on that
Don't understand the question, etc.

A cry-bully is someone who engages in intimidation, harassment, or other abusive behavior while claiming to be a victim. They use perceived righteousness as a pretext to abuse others, and then play the sufferer when confronted about the abuse they were dishing out.

Given that the case against ERCC is made, I am glad NC is taking the time to stick it to MW.

Step away from the thread for a minute and six more pages to read…

Out of all the witnesses she came across as the most reasonable sounding and i bet in a different seeing when just allowing her to sell the gender ideology side she sounds very credible and sways people

Yes, we get oral closing submissions.

Now onto tribunal housekeeping. Written submissions to follow, to be provided in 2 weeks' time, then comments over the following week. So 3 weeks for the tribunal to receive the cases from the parties in their entireties.

This causes NC a problem. She wants an in-person hearing for oral submissions. I think the panel said they could do that but that causes consequent delays, into March, with NC unavailable until April. They're going to try to thrash this out behind the scenes.

Obviously I mean from That side

Roz was the best and most reasonable witness!

KH it's fair for a tw to make her own decision c spaces she feels safe in

I wonder how my company would take it if I decided to sack off meetings or corporate training because I might find them upsetting.

NC Mentioning two sexes, nothing in between and can't change between. Is that transphobic? Talking c it?

KH in this specific instance, AB in sensitive place at stage of their transition

KH asks for bathroom break.

NC couple more qs

NC have you heard of cry bullying?

KH no

NC so easily upset that people have to tread on eggshells around you. You see that in this case.

KH No. People have right to set their own boundaries as to what they are going to engage in.

NC From what we have seen, MW not fit to be CEO of rcc

KH Don't agree

Just trying to connect point here but wasn't it the case that when Alison Bailey sued Garden Court, they found that Garden Court was still responsible even if they'd been given poor legal advice not those that gave the advice (though theres some contention over this and Alison wants to hold Stonewall responsible for this still).

Yes still responsible.

Just trying to connect point here but wasn't it the case that when Alison Bailey sued Garden Court, they found that Garden Court was still responsible even if they'd been given poor legal advice not those that gave the advice (though theres some contention over this and Alison wants to hold Stonewall responsible for this still).

Yes but I think Stonewall denied that they had given any legal advice. And GCC didn't directly claim this.

Everyone on tenterhooks to see if the panel can find a date for oral submissions that isn't going all of the way out to April ...

Worknest, June 28 2021

'Here’s what you need to know about staff with ‘gender critical’ views
Under Section 4 of the Equality Act 2010, religion or belief is a “protected characteristic”. Section 10 of the Act defines “belief” as any religious or philosophical belief (or a lack of belief).
But how far can an individual express their own beliefs, before it potentially clashes with someone else’s protected characteristic?
A landmark judgment has ruled that it is lawful to hold a belief that may offend or shock others, writes Jane Hallas.

https://worknest.com/news/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-staff-with-gender-critical-views/

It’s too far away!!

Please please can we have oral submissions.

What a place to work!

How do you deal with a Wokenest?

These videos (Shaunyboy) are probably the best way I can describe the shit show that is the Scottish Greens -

The Scottish Greens got hardly any votes (Lorna 'Gingerbread Man' Slater didn't even have a good showing in her own constituency) but have a disproportionate amount of power at Holyrood because of the SNP's desperation to stay in power.

They're a shower of fuckwits.

They must be knackered.

Fire probably

Did she? Or is she just educated?

This is one of those examples of someone who has learnt how to answer questions in a certain way might appear more credible - but thats language usage, not the content of what they say.

Look at what she's actually said and just how much she's just shrugged off as not her responsibility somehow - when as a trustee, it is.

It doesn't matter whether she is in Nico's head or not. She should be covering bases and asking difficult questions not abdicating responsibility by saying 'well I dunno'.

She SHOULD know and she should make it her business to understand in these type of scenarios, and if she has doubt that someone is acting fairly / appropriately act. Otherwise she is simply negligent / complicit.

I'm knackered and all I've done is watch it on a tiny screen.

NC is incredible.

I am definitely booking her for when my own inevitable pyre lights tribunal starts

It looks like April. That's a shame.

I agree. She sounds like a privately Edinburgh Educated Naice Young Laydee.

They are ten a penny round these parts and they are often a PITA