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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Evidence re GC women and white supremacism please?

380 replies

Froodwithatowel · 12/01/2024 15:19

I'll quote JCJ here as I do not want to derail the other thread:

From my, and many other people's observation, over the last couple of years, the UK GC space, especially on twitter, has progressively merged with both the US MAGA/Christian nationalist space, and those of UK white nationalists.

It is not easy to make sense of that X thread, but this statement is one I want information on. I don't do parroting, I believe in critical thinking, evidence and independence of thought, and I have learned to be deeply cautious of being accidentally vaccuumed into the 'so and so smells so do what I tell you' strategies so very tediously rife at the moment to get people in line and useful to others, we live in very grotty times.

So please would some kind person provide me with evidence that women wanting rights, equality and single sex spaces are entangled with religious extremism and white nationalism? Actual evidence. Not aspersions, but evidence.

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RebelliousCow · 07/03/2024 15:17

DadJoke · 07/03/2024 09:58

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The fact you don’t think trans women are women shouldn’t stop you parsing a simple English sentence

Sally is a transgender woman, so Sally has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Sally, in this example, is the woman.

Transgender, like gay, white or disabled is an adjective.

.

Gay, white and disabled are all adjectives which describe measurable, observable things. Transgender is a concept. It means different things to different people, and lots of different groups people come under its umbrella.

RebelliousCow · 07/03/2024 15:20

SuePine69 · 07/03/2024 11:30

I don't believe that April Ashley was a gay man. She would have been accepted by more people if she had been. If you think about Brian Epstein, he was accepted in the 1960s by the people who mattered. There was a gay subculture in port cities like Liverpool. Very few people changed sex, April was a pioneer.

I don't believe that gay men in Iran change sex so that they can legally have sex with men.

Jan Morris was emotionally abusive to her daughter but not physically or sexually abusive. I don't see how that is relevant to the fact that she was trans.

I would say that being trans is not a mental illness or a lifestyle choice. It is part of a range of personality characteristics such as sexual orientation and personality traits. We don't really know why people are different, it probably has a genetic component. It doesn't really matter why, we just have to accept that some people are different.

I have read three books that criticise trans beliefs. Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier which despite its title is good. She seems to care about trans people which is more that you can say about Stock or Joyce's books. They do seem to want to make women afraid of trans women.

April Ashley was a gay man, At a time, and in a working class culture, in which being gay was just not going to be accepted at all. There is substantial writing on this matter, and also a fairly recent exhibition at the Museum Of Liverpool ( Ashley was from Liverpool). Ashley had sexual/romantic relationships with men.

Brian Epstein was a middle class man from a very different milieu - but even he had to disguise the fact.

RebelliousCow · 07/03/2024 16:07

RebelliousCow · 07/03/2024 15:20

April Ashley was a gay man, At a time, and in a working class culture, in which being gay was just not going to be accepted at all. There is substantial writing on this matter, and also a fairly recent exhibition at the Museum Of Liverpool ( Ashley was from Liverpool). Ashley had sexual/romantic relationships with men.

Brian Epstein was a middle class man from a very different milieu - but even he had to disguise the fact.

Edited

Or I should say April Ashley was a sensitive, nascently gay child living in a tough environment with a violent and abusive mother and an alcoholic father.

There is an excellent documentary on Netflix called 'Regretters' which involves a conversation between two former TW - both now detransitioned. One of the men was, like Ashley, one of the earliest to undergo the new transsexual surgery - in Sweden in the 1960s - when being gay was not only unacceptable, but illegal as well.

He says he wanted to be loved by a man in the way that he perceived a woman might be loved by a man. This was his ardent desire. He was slight and feminine, in the manner of Ashley - and for many years managed to 'pass' fairly well...but ultimately he came to the realisation that he was not really a woman at all. This took decades to realise. He ended up thinking of himself as a type of 'third gender' neither male nor female; even though he had gone to the trouble to have a penis reconstruction.

Well worth a watch! The other detransitioner had also had the 'full surgery' - but was more clearly of the AGP variety and was actually naturally attracted to women, but because they seemed not to be attracted to him, he reckoned he'd become an attractive woman himself.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/03/2024 16:22

You can believe what you like.

Yes, I know! But thanks so much for the endorsement.

andforthatminuteablackbirdsang · 07/03/2024 22:32

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