Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

https://nationalconservatism.org/natcon-uk-2023/presenters/miriam-cates/

https://nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/ (read principles 4, 8, 10)

https://thenewalbion.substack.com/p/a-body-in-need-of-a-soul-a-british

This one is a bit

https://www.sheffieldtribune.co.uk/p/sheffield-mp-miriam-cates-denies

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/politics/rising-star-of-the-right-who-is-miriam-cates/

The article further reports that the financial backing for the National Conservatism conference came from Peter Thiel, “one of the main financial backers of Republican politics [who] … last year funded campaigns to replace Republican candidates who didn’t support accusations questioning the validity of the 2020 presidential election”.
It concludes that the instigation of the conference “provides evidence of the growing influence of US Christian Nationalism in the UK”.

At the event? If so, that's reassuring to hear. Although I have heard KJW advocate for watchful waiting in adolescents who are confused about gender identity, I've also seen footage of KJW saying that children should learn about gender identity in schools. I would not expect a parent to get a balanced view by following up with KJW as any kind of neutral "expert" here. If this kind of issue can be course-corrected at the time that it happens (which it sounds like it was), that is also helpful when it plays out in the discourse.

And on the general thread:

I'm not in a position to have a view on whether Christian nationalist/MAGA teaming has been happening or not on X in recent times. But it's definitely something that I'm mindful of because the UK "GC" demographic is very different from a significant proportion of those in the US, and I wouldn't want to be part of a conflation if this were to happen. The Bud Light boycott was an example of this IMO, in that there seemed to be a lot of straight men distancing themselves from a marketing campaign which threatened their "manliness", because of their sexist/homophobic/(transphobic?) views. I keep it in mind in the same way as I do with any other forced-teaming potential.

It's possible to agree on a point that someone makes without it being complicit agreement of everything that they say. It's also possible to work together, from different GC viewpoints, with a goal to mitigate the impact of "capture" when it comes to gender identity bias slipping through the net when the discussion is widened to include trans identified people.

The way in which the OP has been spoken to on this thread makes little sense, even in the context that there are apparently back stories to the JCJ quoted tweet. I had hoped it might get unpicked productively, in a similar way to the one that followed the Genspect "dress gate" issue but that doesn't seem to be the case so I'll drop off.

Indeed. I find Tinsel is absolutely direct and to the point.

I don’t always agree with you, Tinsel, however I know that you will always have the back for the women and children harmed by men who declare trans identities. More often I do, not that you should care either way. And I know that you are relentless in doing supporting those who need you and have been for years. In reading your direct and erudite contributions, I know that I have certainly learned a great deal about the needs of these women and children.

I don’t expect people to be nice. I have found that it is far easier to respect someone who is honest, consistent and sticks to the facts than someone who comes across as manipulative and hypocritical.

Based on tweets by people who were there bonfire, conversing with / calling out Lewis.

What is the 'sin page?' I know nothing about the org.

What exactly is the issue with people observing the overlap between those movements? It really is very noticeable on this board that alongside feminists there are also posters playing culture wars, posters with extremely religious beliefs that are leading them to be GC, posters from all over the world with different politics.
Pointing that out isn't the same as saying all GC feminists are MAGA adjacent.
And this is why the board isn't like old FWR. It used to be debate and challenge, learn new things, explore facts and evidence.
Increasingly now its A TRANSWOMAN IS WHATEVER I SAY IT IS SHUT UP YOU ANTIWOMAN BIGOT to anyone who posts anything not on the "party line". In the process turning into an exact replica of TRAs but just from the other end of the spectrum.

Interesting to watch, but also sad.

As you can see I get plenty of personal attacks so you can write this of as CCHQ labour bot shilling if you like, but its nice to read something showing other GC feminists can see the trend towards nationalism/populism/evangelical Christian posters turning up at the debates.

https://brightonsisters.wordpress.com/differences-of-opinion-between-bwlc-and-kellie-jay-keen/

This is a page listing Kellie Jay Keen’s sins. I, and others, have pointed out in the past that other feminists have said and written about the topics and said similar things but they do not have a sin page.

It is the hypocrisy that I keep pointing out. It has reached a crescendo with this Twitter thread discussion.

'It really is very noticeable on this board that alongside feminists there are also posters playing culture wars, posters with extremely religious beliefs that are leading them to be GC, posters from all over the world with different politics.'

God forbid women with different politics discuss things, eh?

Wow KJK has done some crappy things hasn't she? The Jean Hatchet blog and the screenshots from WPUK are both pretty shocking to me....

So she spoke at a conference that got funding from an American man who also funded Republican campaigns in the US? I have to confess that I've spoken at conferences and had no idea of the politics or beliefs of the funders, though granted I'm not an MP!

How much did that pharmaceutical company which makes puberty blockers give the Lib Dems, again?

Discussion is the opposite of what happens to people who aren't in the clique or toeing the board line.

What happens is posters are told they are "bad faith" or "shutting women down" and shouted off the board.

I've just read through this.

KJW is not terribly dissimiliar to the adults who 'educated' teenage me online about gender identity. And look how I turned out!

@IamSarah and women who've been raped and abused by a man like KatyJon as I have? What do you think you are signalling to women like me? To our daughters? I'd travel to the UK to get help from a strictly single sex rape crisis center if I felt I could trust those running the service. After this latest force teaming, condescension, passive aggressive non-apologies, and self righteous, dismissive responses to women who express feelings of anger, betrayal and frustration over seeing one of our abusers held in esteem by supposed feminists YET AGAIN, I am losing the tiny bit of faith I had that any rape crisis center can be trusted. Certainly not any you might be involved with. Will you have your staff reminding woken that not all genders rape/AGPs and abuse? I wouldn't be remotely surprised.

Was that too scathing for you? Pity.

*women not woken

I think the trouble here maybe in the actual grassroots nature of gc feminism.

Many of us have no firm political affiliations, are 'politically homeless'. Most of us no longer really care what insults are flung at us.

We have no party line to toe. None of us here have to pretend to agree with ANYONE.

Hooray.

There is no clique. There is no 'board line'.

We are all individuals with our own views.

If you genuinely are interested read the Byline Times article. That's not a good summary at all.

I can’t say I know any of this stuff not being on X

But I’m pro single sex spaces and for those that move us towards that goal

And every time I open the gardening board daffodils grow all over my curtains and the style and beauty board make me change into a better skirt.

Gosh it's tough around here.

Wait a minute, you accuse people on here of being Tories <shock horror> all the time and refuse to believe they're not, but have a problem with being called a Labour shill or "bad faith"?
A bit hypocritical no? Do you even realise you're doing what you accuse others of doing?

The OP has clarified that she is happy to accept the money of Christian nationalists herself, so I don't seee why it should matter who else accepts funding from Christian nationalists.

Hmm. Go and look at the Alan Cumming thread and tell me that.

No dissent is tolerated any more. Any challenge is met with accusations of ulterior motives from several posters (not you, not Tinsel).

The fan girling for people who most feminists would see as a threat to women (Badenoch, Braverman, Cates) is truly chilling.

Would you like to be explicit about what are the 'crappy things' that Kellie Jay has done?

I mean, I do not think that she is above criticism, but please let us know exactly what it is that you have actual evidence for that she has down rather than vague accusations. Because, we have been down this path before and we now have the transcripts of what was actually said, and the full context. Not the snipped and curated versions that are usually presented.

The reason FWR is different now is because loads of the old posters got perma banned (eg Lang, TehBewilderness & many others)!

if people don't want to be called Tory or right wing, they are going about it strangely by saying they are voting Tory.

The only time I'd call someone a Tory is if they are being pro Tory policies/politicians or saying they are voting Tory.

I'm open about my political position (lub Dem for years, homeless due to GC concerns, joined Labour under Starmer because I think he's a true champion of women's rights from when he was DPP).

I'm not politically active, am MP, being paid by the party, being paid by CCHQ or all the other shit that gets said.

I'm a woman trying to join a debate on a board where it used to be welcome (and usually getting attacked)