NHS accepting non-binary sex status

[Yetmorebeanstocount]

I've just filled out an online survey for the NHS (got a letter saying I was selected at random).
It asked whether I was male, female, or non-binary.
With hindsight I wish I had clicked non-binary to see if it would then ask what my sex actually was. Seeing as 'non-binary' is not a biological or medical category.

(The next question was whether my sex was same as gender, which is fair enough although it could be confusing for some people).

Did anyone else have this survey request? What happens if you click 'non-binary' - does it then ask for your sex?
Because I cannot see the point of a medical survey that collects numbers of non-binary people in the population without knowing if they are actually male or female.

I've just realised - the letter was addressed to me by name at my address, so presumably is already linked to my NHS records. I had to enter a password from the letter to do the online survey.

So it is not anonymous, although the resulting analysis will probably be anonymised.

I still don't see the relevance of the NHS needing to know who identifies as "non-binary".

But you may or may not be autistic if you have a gender identity and feel the need to put yourself in one of these boxes. We have laws which protect us against organisations collecting data for no, or no clear reason and using it for purposes we did not consent to. This is clearly in that territory.

That’s a good point that I didn’t think of.

I'm asking you because you disagreed with me and said there would be health issues specific to these niche identities. I'm asking you to name one of those health issues which would be impacted by identity. Are you not able to?

I wasn’t really disagreeing with you. Just thinking that without the data, you would have no way of knowing and couldn’t produce any statistics. With it, you could potentially distinguish trans men who take testosterone from those that don’t, and from ‘cisgender’ females. I don’t know what issues they might have, but at least with the info someone who knows more than I do would have some data to look at. There are privacy issues though, you’re right.

But you can't distinguish TM who take testosterone from those who don't with these questions. Other than all being female, there is no given with TM. some may take testosterone, others may take hrt, others take nothing, some did take it and stopped. Gender identity tells you as much useful medical info as religious identity.

But they ask your age which would also be on your medical record. So my presumption is that they wouldn’t be linking up an individual survey result with the individuals patients record. I’m presuming that the survey is addressed to individuals so that can make sure that eg all doctors surgery’s are covered by the survey.

And to add I don’t think that adding non-binary to the options just means that it confuses - I think it’s a strong indicator that the question is asking gender identity and not sex.

I was assuming that full medical data may be used for statistical research. It’s not something I know a lot about, but potentially (privacy issues aside) you could.

I very recently filled in a NHS form and it asked you how you identified and whether this was the same as your sex assigned at birth. There is no way from this that they can tell what the patient's sex is. Its scandalous. Accurate data is needed for both that individual patient safety and wider patient safety by being able to monitor outcomes and use data for research.

I am in Wales.

You know, sometimes the non-binary poseurs make me crankier than the trans-identified cross-dressers (men and women).

Non-binary people think they are being radical and challenging gender roles etc. They are doing nothing of the sort. The young women think that looking like boys is feminism and the young men think they are doing a good thing against toxic masculinity. Both groups are deluded. They should be doing REAL activism not faffing about with pretending.

I was reading this: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-collections-and-data-sets/data-sets/mental-health-services-data-set/submit-data/data-quality-of-protected-characteristics-and-other-vulnerable-groups/gender-identity. I haven’t got time to read it on everyone’s behalf and answer questions. You’ll have to read it yourselves, if you want to. From what some of you are saying (and my not being an expert on it), it sounds like there are things which need improving, I agree.

Thanks for sharing. I have no issue with data on gender identity being collected. But it should only be in addition to collecting data on sex.

And should include an option for those who do not have a gender identity.

And NHS Digital only covers England

We in Wales can look forward to "Digital Health and Care Wales"

As the Welsh Government website explains "Digital Health and Care Wales are (sic) a new Special Health Authority, creating the digital solutions needed to improve health and care in Wales."

Given Welsh Government's batshit gender ideological stance, we can look forward to a database which records gender(s) and totally ignores the essential biological and medical element of sex.

I have filled out the same survey.
Question 1 about "gender" I was given male, female and non binary.
(Chose female)
Question 2 asked about gender identity. No option to say "none", so I chose "prefer not to say", and have written them an email to explain why my answer is incorrect.
Glad it's not just me!

Well full medical data might be able to be. E.g. data showing that this is a male person and this is a male person who has had their penis and testicles removed - sure. But you can have any gender identity with any body and any elective removal of body parts. So the actual identity is not informative and therefore should not be asked. In addition, it is a political act to ask about one identity and not others which are much more important to most people than relationships with regressive gender stereotypes .

I now refuse to put female if 'non binary' is an option because clearly the question has got nothing to do with biology/sex/facts and I am not colluding with a nonsense which allows people to pretend otherwise just to protect the egos of the privileged.

I think for me, I care that people receive safe medical care, and that we respect everyone. Part of medical care is mental health, and identity is a part of that. We can’t help people without information about their experiences. There are also women who for a period of time feel they are men / would like to be men, or are non-binary, and then subsequently think you know I think I made a mistake. Sometimes that’s after choices that they regret, and they wonder how will anyone ever accept they are women now. I don’t think we should simply dismiss those people as crazy. I think we should help them and also learn from their experiences, so that we can help people in the future. That goes for men too. We can’t do any of that without information. Identity is an important aspect of mental and physical health in my opinion, as mental and physical health are intrinsically linked.

I did find single sex loos!
Well I don't know if they were single sex. I just assumed they were given that a few others were "all genders welcome".

I think I was surprised you had simple symbols on some and full catch phrases on others. And I missed that they were simply avoiding using the word 'sex' it trying to get the word 'gender' in there by all means.

@Peasandsweetcorns so, are you looking saying that believing you're not the biological sex which you'll actually are is a mental illness and therefore we should know that? if so, what other facts associated with mental ill health should we collect information about at the same time as actual demographics? e.g. sexual abuse experiences, poverty, bullying at school? you're not understanding that this does not help anyone learn anything because the categories are vague, poorly defined and ever changing. This is a deliberately act of obfuscation designed to hide the fact that the gender ideology movement is a male supremacist movement. The minute TW are grouped by the NHSbwith actual women, we lose the ability to develop better health care for actual women. And it is them, not trans identified males, who are poorest served in healthcare.

Yes, it's changing the wording from the actual legal protected characteristic to something entirely different which hasn't been defined.
It's Stonewall law as they would like it to be.
One can only hope Trusts check it out with their legal department before rolling over and doing as they are told.

Plus I have no idea why the NHS should be paying any attention to non-binary - it isn't a protected characteristic.

Yes, I love the WhatDoTheyKnow.com site.
There's a few people I have noticed doing FOIs related to the Rainbow Badge scheme and the costs related.

Anyone wondering what I'm talking about , go to the site and search Rainbow Badge Accreditation report. There are also some related to Assessment costs.

Here's the one from Bart's. You will find staff comments around pages 18-22

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1051703/response/2501043/attach/html/3/Barts%20Rainbow%20Award%20Final%20Assessment%20Report.pdf.html

So frustrating to read the single feeble defence of gender identity being recorded in preference to sex with "oh it does need improving".

Why the fuck the NHS ever started recording gender identity at all is a good question. Non-binary is just nonsense.

That they decided to basically drop recording sex and then went "oh yes, let's use a weird combination of questions to guess which sex the patient is" is a fucking travesty and everyone involved should be sacked.

Fuckwits.

The staff comments are very interesting. (Not in a good way on the whole).
For instance:

“Safe spaces to relax on breaks.”

“More network meetings and socials. These seem to vary from site to site. RLH doesn’t
seem to have any recently and it’s difficult to travel to other sites during working hours.”

“I would really like for my team to respect my pronouns, especially because my pronouns are included in my email signature.”

Safe spaces to relax on breaks?????
When a colleague returned from maternity leave and I found her expressing in our cramped and crowded changing room (with 2 loos) I put a comment in our staff intranet that mothers returning from maternity leave needed proper breaks to ensure they can drink enough and a decent place to express.
Our deputy CEO replied "yes, what a good idea" and that is the last anything has been heard of that.

And more (LGBTQ++++) networks and socials? You come to work to do your bloody work. It's not a speed dating site.

My GP’s is the same. They have a drop-down that says ‘why aren’t there more choices’ that explains this is about sex for medical purposes

This is so ridiculously stupid. Why didn't they start with the simple question: what is your (birth / biological) sex?

Followed by "Is your sex the same as your gender?"

Then a follow up on what gender they'd like recorded if the answer was no. Instead of the other bloody way round, which makes no sense because it's far more important to record the correct sex than the gender! I despair, I really do.

Ignore me, just realised they had done this but then put non binary as a sex option, rendering the whole thing completely useless because then "sex" is effectively "gender" - actually, that makes me despair even more.