NHS accepting non-binary sex status

[Yetmorebeanstocount]

I've just filled out an online survey for the NHS (got a letter saying I was selected at random).
It asked whether I was male, female, or non-binary.
With hindsight I wish I had clicked non-binary to see if it would then ask what my sex actually was. Seeing as 'non-binary' is not a biological or medical category.

(The next question was whether my sex was same as gender, which is fair enough although it could be confusing for some people).

Did anyone else have this survey request? What happens if you click 'non-binary' - does it then ask for your sex?
Because I cannot see the point of a medical survey that collects numbers of non-binary people in the population without knowing if they are actually male or female.

No that question identifies those that are transgender. It doesn’t ask if your gender identity is different and if so what - just yes or no. So that provides no information about your sex.

Say I clicked "non-binary.

Then the second question is "Is your gender identity the same as the sex you were registered at birth? Yes, no, prefer not to say”* i answer "no".

How does that tell anyone whether I was registered male of female at birth?

It doesn't, does it?

I’ve not seen the particular questions you’re looking at, but you can see the database itself has been designed to capture all the options. So personally I think it’s a big improvement for everyone.

Perhaps they haven’t asked great questions for whatever you’re looking at, or perhaps they don’t want as much information for that particular thing. You would have to ask them.

The survey I’ve got is the GP Survey so I presume pretty comprehensive. Based on the questions they will be able analyse the results by: age, sexuality, trans, ethnic group, religion. But not sex.

They will have recorded sex, but the way the database is designed it uses two digits, rather than one. So to extract sex from it you need to look at the particular combination of the two digits, not a single sex digit. It doesn’t use a sex field as such, because they’ve designed it to allow them to distinguish trans people, birth sex, sex unable to be identified, didn’t answer the question, etc, not just sex and current gender identity.

@FannyCann have you seen the freedom of information requests regarding it?

The fields in the database may be perfect, but they're no bloody use if they're being used incorrectly.

Some years ago, when bringing in fields to cover both sex and gender, NHS Digital wrote extensive guidance on the need for users to understand which box was which and the serious clinical risks of mixing them up.

A year or so back a lot of women checked their own records and found the sex field blank and only the gender one used. Or (less critically from the point of view of reality but possibly worse from the point of view of a GI believer) that both were used but the gender one had been filled in by a healthcare professional without asking.

But as explained above it doesn't - and can't - do that for several combinations of the 2 digits. Which makes the 'sex unable to be identified' grouo far larger than it should be, therefore reducing the utility of the data for both that question and for the survey as a whole.

Yes, actually I think you are right. It can do binary transgender people, and sex at birth for binary trans and ‘cisgender’ people, but there is no sex at birth for nonbinary people, at least. So, needs improvement still!

Any survey or questionnaire that asks about gender identity needs an option of "none'.

Exactly like any question about religion.

It was back in 2018 when someone checked and wrote about it here.

https://medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-bb86b0c3ebb

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3422736-My-NHS-Medical-Record-has-deleted-my-sex-And-added-a-ladybrain

Actually there is a third digit, not just two, so it may be that they actually can do it, but aren’t asking enough questions in some questionnaires at the moment. I should have read more of it! You can look it up yourself if you want.

I'm not sure it is. Your gender identity is not relevant for healthcare - at least it shouldn't be because TW (AKA males) should never be in any female spaces. So unless they are going to start asking about any other random aspect of identity which some people have and others don't, there is really no justification for asking whether people have a 'gender identity'.

'None' or 'This is a load of wank'.

Either will do.

Yes - 3y2, 3n2, 3x2 and 3z2 would all mean nonbinary female at birth. So it can do it I think, but they would need to ask more questions to get the info.

You need it to be able to identify health issues specific to say nonbinary females vs identifies as female females vs identifies as male females, amongst other things.

Such as?

I don’t know. Mental health? Are there physical issues which one group might experience more than the others? Presumably there may be?

Agreed. What an exasperating read about an indefensible practice. Literally millions of ££ spent on nonsense like this once you add up all the irrelevant D & I staff, countless hours of staff time diverted just to make medics look and sound clueless and incoherent in front of patients. Predatory values (male rapists must be on women's wards) embedded in numerous NHS policies and the nation's mentally vulnerable children being gaslit & experimented on by some of the most dangerous adults in medicine with resulting catastrophic impacts on their long term health and wellbeing.

How much longer is society going to stand by watching while this continues?

Anyone in any group can experience any mental health condition so there is no need to note gender identity to pick that up. The physical health issues may present depending on whether you've chosen radical and poorly researched surgery or life limiting medications or not, but that is not a given for any gender identity. I.e. you can be a TW and choose (most of those males do) to keep your cock and not taking medication designed to mock up some aspects which women have and men never don't. So asking gender identity is not very informative and therefore unjustified.

And what health issues would be specific to these groups of females?

Their biology is all the same -female

If they have taken exogenous hormones or had surgical procedures, ask about those matters specifically.

Their self-declared identity doesn't tell you anything about that.

Exactly - their identity does not tell you whether they're taking artificial hormones or have asked people to remove healthy body parts.

Aren’t there supposed to be more gender diverse autistic people, presumably it would help with research in that area. I don’t know why you’re asking me really, lol. More information seems better than less to me.

But you may or may not be autistic if you have a gender identity and feel the need to put yourself in one of these boxes. We have laws which protect us against organisations collecting data for no, or no clear reason and using it for purposes we did not consent to. This is clearly in that territory.

I'm asking you because you disagreed with me and said there would be health issues specific to these niche identities. I'm asking you to name one of those health issues which would be impacted by identity. Are you not able to?