Will Gender Ideology influence how you vote?

[Heylo]

Hi, new to Mumsnet. Full disclaimer I have no kids yet but will start trying March 24 (lesbian with some embryos in the freezer!). I decided to join after the hilarious responses to the Dawn Butler debacle over the weekend.

I’ve historically been a Labour voter but I’m voting Tory next year because I’m concerned about women’s and children’s rights in relation to Gender Ideology. The lesbian scene especially has been culturally bulldozed by the new additions to womanhood & a lot of us (in our 30s) now self - exclude based on some of the militant trans rights activists (TRAs) pressuring women into taking on trans women as partners and socialise more closely with them. (Only media reporting on this is Telegraph & The Daily Mail. There has been a media blackout on this at the BBC and The Guardian). Actually a couple of women have tried to run same - sex speed dating nights but TRAs have sent them threats, doxxed them to their employers and called the venues to get the nights / events shut down. You can read more about that here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12401009/amp/Lesbian-speed-dating-event-sparks-transphobia-row-organisers-insist-adult-human-females-attend-popular-weekly-event.html

Anyway sorry for the segue, my question is to anyone who is interested in answering- if you are historically a Labour voter would the Gender issue sway you to voting conservative?

its a big topic at the moment in Gender Critical lesbian and bi circles. Everyone is usually a Labour voter but we’re all worried about what craziness Keir Starmer is going to introduce re erasing women’s spaces. I was curious what Mumsnet users think as outside of lesbians you are the next group (parents) who are most affected by this.

Regardless of where anyone's allegiances lie, I think any government that wins multiple terms of office eventually runs out of steam and gets careless and indisciplined. It caught up with the Tory government in 1997 and with Labour in 2010.

I think history shows this is true.

I also think Labour will disappear us as a sex class, as I said upthread. The tangible reality of that means it will be lawful to discriminate against us. I absolutely will not ever vote for that.

As so many eloquent pp's have stated, it's a single issue for me but the tip of an iceberg of related issues.
Tony Blair got in with a platform of 'people think they want change, but they're afraid of too much change.' He was right.
Politics is a poison chalice, the people that could solve these problems are the support team, civil servants and advisors, MP's are gatekeepers and spokespeople who sometimes but too rarely work hard for their constituents.
If you have a decent MP of any party, vote for them, join a party, support the groups that are tackling this issue. Please use your vote, even if it doesn't get your chosen candidate in.

I think the majority of the Tories are awful, corrupt etc. (I would exempt Kemi Badenoch and a few others from this - there are a few who genuinely seem to want to do what's best for the country and its people)

I see no sign that Labour would be better and quite a few signs they'd be worse. A lot of Labour existing MPs got rich in the expenses scandal, flipping houses bought by their expenses etc whilst claiming to care about poor people. They also brought in PFI which has been a disaster for the NHS.

The Tories (and it's a low bar) are less hypocritical - they at least pretty much openly agree with allowing the rich to get richer no matter the cost and with little control on the methods of doing so. They are also not so keen on totalitarian control of speech and thought, which leaves some wriggle room for normal people to have their views heard.

The NHS is stuffed with left wing managers who spend millions on EDI initiatives whilst leaving basic care faltering and seemingly not caring that much about actual patients or frontline NHS staff. You only have to look at the Letby case to see how badly wrong this has gone.

We were all free to say Boris was a wanker, even when he was PM. I don't think people would be free to state facts or their own lived experience under Labour. To be honest, despite Tory governments, a lot of the public sector has been captured by those who claim to be on the left and 'progressive' for years. Their policies are very bad for poor people and in some cases downright insane 1984 territory (anyone who says so is a woman). However in the magical thinking department it's always only the 'in crowd' who are allowed to claim to be something they're not - your bog standard disabled person can't just claim disability benefits but has to prove it and in some cases gets their payments / support removed on the basis of very dubious procedure.

I think with Labour this would just get worse.

I don't really want a Tory government, I wish more independents would stand and Posie could get her Party of Women off the ground as honestly I'd vote Monster Raving Looney - as the most sane candidate - over either my current Tory MP or Labour / Lib Dem science deniers.

Welcome @Heylo - your opening post is really terrifying.

It is awful how 'progressives'/ the Labour party keep offering up lesbians as unconsenting support humans for abusive men. Because that's what I see happening.

I certainly will stand with lesbians in pushing back against this. The way Allison Bailey was treated during her court case should have been a wake up call but seemingly wasn't enough of one.

Keep on going. And I hope you are successful in having a baby next year; your MN account will be invaluable when your baby has green poo and you don't know why!

Agree,
While we're distracted by the noises of parliament and the glamour of the royals, we're getting our rights pick-pocketed by the people behind the scenes.
We are so fortunate for the energetic and bright women who brought this to our attention before we lose it all.

@pronounsbundlebundle what a lovely msg! ❤️ thank you for your kind words. I love Mumsnet - it's incredible. The spirit of womanhood and sister solidarity on here is alive and well!

I know - it's almost unbelievable re what's happening to lesbians at the moment. And the most surprising aspect is the TRAs are often apparently lesbians themselves who try to root out people who aren't wholly supportive of a complete assimilation of trans women. It is a witch hunt. Even when you write a dating profile you have to be careful not to attract the attention of TRAs - they actively seek out people to bring down. Women policing other women's sexuality. When I first peaked, I felt frightened and alone. None of my existing friends had any issue with widening their concept of 'lesbian' to include a man with a penis. I had to seek out other gay women who were worried about this. I also really dislike how children are being offered up as sacrifices for this mad agenda.

I posted this earlier I don't know if you saw it, but these are two brilliant articles about who is funding the trans lobby -

fullmeasure.news/newest-videos/transgender-lobby

www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/01/the-billionaires-behind-the-lgbt-movement

Thank you for supporting lesbians. That means so much to me (and my friends who I will talk to about these lovely interactions on Mumsnet). It's insane. Same sex attraction and hetro- sexual attraction is exclusive by nature. Nancy Kelley of stonewall has tried to widen the definition of lesbian to now include 'transwomen' with penises. And likened lesbians who won't date these men as sexual racists telling us 'if you find yourself excluding a group of people (she was referring to transwomen in this discussion - the majority of them who still have penises) from your dating pool, you need to look at that.

She also uses the term 'cotton ceiling' which refers to transwomen trying to have sexual relations with lesbians and being rejected ie they hit the 'cotton' ceiling (referring to the woman's underwear). Many of us see this as sexual coercion and as rape culture. Unfortunately when the female so- called lesbian head of the most powerful LGBT charity says this, and thinks it's acceptable, we know as lesbians our rights are being stripped away.

I feel much more connected to the Mumsnet community to the chaos that the gay community has become. Women here actually seem to care about other women.

If anyone does want to support LGB people the incredible LGB alliance are doing so much to support us. Here is their website. They are a truly fantastic bunch of men and women fighting for LGB rights which are being dismantled LGB Alliance g.co/kgs/ZhoCyR

The Tories (and it's a low bar) are less hypocritical - they at least pretty much openly agree with allowing the rich to get richer no matter the cost and with little control on the methods of doing so. They are also not so keen on totalitarian control of speech and thought, which leaves some wriggle room for normal people to have their views heard.

Yes. The Tories are largely self interested but they don't try to posit themselves as the goodies. Labour are similarly self interested but identify as the goodies and also require obeisance and genuflection to Right Thinking.

Exactly this. She is representative of Labour though. There is nothing so terrifying as the Authoritarian left.

Yes entirely. Nobody enjoys what the Tories have done to public services but the threat of men in women's spaces (happening now - Isla Bryson, Karen white - sexually assaulted two female prisoners, Katie Dolatowski sexually assaulting a ten year old in a toilet, lesbians no longer able to meet up without transwomen, GC women being doxxed, threatened and no platformed) and that's before we even get on to kids. Keira Bell?? Life changing surgery that she now regrets. Where were the adults in the room for Keira Bell?

I love Mumsnet - it's incredible. The spirit of womanhood and sister solidarity on here is alive and well!

Absolutely, and that's why misogynists and mediocre professionals (like Dawn Butler) hate it. Witty and intelligent women lifting each other up and reinforcing the idea that women are not support humans despite the actions indicating they are from all around us, all who benefit from that being the case (politicians, certain middle class professions, abusive men). Letting each other know that we count too, are fully human and have the right to 'be kind' to ourselves first.

I have been a teacher for 25 years. I can not vote for the Tories on any women's issues. Their decimation of public services have an impact on women. I'm a secondary teacher and we provide period products to our students which comes out of our already meagre budget. The Tories know who women are and hate them.

The problem government has its thats lots of organisations and departments are too arms length away for politicans to do anything about. The cabinets power is to write letter that civil servants, police, teachers and the nhs can ignore.

Remember i think it was Braveman telling police to stop recording non crime hate incidents because they arent legal, and then the police, months later recording Rachel Maclean calling a man in a wig a man in a wig as a non crime hate incident?

Lots of teachers are vocal about refusing to comply with any new guidance around children with gender confusion, despite knowing the recommendations in the cass report.

This isnt going to change with a labour government. Whats needed is change within these institutions probably as a result of legal action.

Gender ideology isnt a left or right wing , but the attitude of the government can aid or hinder safeguarding and womens rights. I really fear labour will enforcing a silence around criticism of anyone with more hate speech legislation. So rather than get to the root cause, they will make more laws that will, in effect, be more obstacles for women to navigate.

Also, ive being hearing from various labour adjacent womens groups that the leadership of the labour party is GC, for years. Yet still the best the leadership has said is the 99% of women dont have a penis. The leadership is lying to the womens groups or the womens groups are lying to us. No one who understands the issue would say such a ridiculous, side stepping remark.

The Tories know who women are and hate them.

”Hate” is a strong, if not hyperbolic word there. Care to evidence this “hate”?

I think you’re right Zutt, even a GC cabinet will struggle to change attitudes which are embedded eg in the NHS. We need to have people willing to challenge this at all levels. We are starting to get the case law in place to support people to do this. However, gov legislation could make this either very much easier, or impossible, depending on which way the cabinet leans

All my "data" is what I have witnessed over the past 13 years of the 25 years I have been teaching but especially pre and post Covid.

My school:
-supplies sanitary products
-meals (outside of FSM)
-support for young carers
-support for children of victims of domestic abuse

You may argue this is a school's role but we don't receive extra funding, and in fact, budgets have been cut. This will now have an impact on our future women.

How can our young women aspire for a life better than what they are living in when they stay at home when they're menstruating as they can't afford san pro?

Also, the Tories have allowed me to teach students who are transitioning without parental knowledge. This issue has been happening for around 5 years.

And this is what i mean about ministers being letter writers, and organisations enpowered to ignore them.

What one earth possessed schools to ignore safeguarding and undermine parent/child relationships? And then get on their high horse, blaming the governing about the cost of pads and tampons?

Are you a teacher? We have now power in schools! Young teachers have been raised with this ideology and us oldies (mid 40s) just want to keep our jobs.

I think i miss read this.

Do you mean that a member of the cabinet told schools that they could or should socially transition children and keep that information away from their parent?

There has been no absolute guidance and even now it’s non statutory.

The area is so grey that the child’s best interests in heart is what schools will follow. Please search me and read my posts - you’ll read what I have had to deal with.

There is loads of safeguarding guidance about why keeping children’s secrets is an absolute ‘no’

Are you a teacher? It’s awfully conflicted in schools the past few years. I have made made anonymous reports to Ofsted, nothing has been done. It’s horrible being a GC teacher in schools.

Please read all my others posts and see how it’s hard in schools. So back to the original post, I won’t vote Conservative as they have put me is this position.

I don’t disagree that those things should be provided, but I don’t see the absence of such as “hate”.

I apologise. I’m too invested seeing the consequences of Conservative rule.