Will Gender Ideology influence how you vote?

[Heylo]

Hi, new to Mumsnet. Full disclaimer I have no kids yet but will start trying March 24 (lesbian with some embryos in the freezer!). I decided to join after the hilarious responses to the Dawn Butler debacle over the weekend.

I’ve historically been a Labour voter but I’m voting Tory next year because I’m concerned about women’s and children’s rights in relation to Gender Ideology. The lesbian scene especially has been culturally bulldozed by the new additions to womanhood & a lot of us (in our 30s) now self - exclude based on some of the militant trans rights activists (TRAs) pressuring women into taking on trans women as partners and socialise more closely with them. (Only media reporting on this is Telegraph & The Daily Mail. There has been a media blackout on this at the BBC and The Guardian). Actually a couple of women have tried to run same - sex speed dating nights but TRAs have sent them threats, doxxed them to their employers and called the venues to get the nights / events shut down. You can read more about that here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12401009/amp/Lesbian-speed-dating-event-sparks-transphobia-row-organisers-insist-adult-human-females-attend-popular-weekly-event.html

Anyway sorry for the segue, my question is to anyone who is interested in answering- if you are historically a Labour voter would the Gender issue sway you to voting conservative?

its a big topic at the moment in Gender Critical lesbian and bi circles. Everyone is usually a Labour voter but we’re all worried about what craziness Keir Starmer is going to introduce re erasing women’s spaces. I was curious what Mumsnet users think as outside of lesbians you are the next group (parents) who are most affected by this.

We have...she's not interested. I will always vote for the candidate rather than the party going forward. You need to respect and have some faith in your MP.
I'll be spoiling. I live in a safe Labour seat - and used to be a party member - but most Labour party members cannot be trusted on this issue.

In that case I'm hoisted by my own petard so my apologies @rockstairshoes

I don't see much point in waiting till they're already power before lobbying though. The time you're most likely to have any influence is surely before an election while they still need your vote.

I intend to vote Tory for the first time ever.
Labour and the alternatives are entirely captured with false and dangerous beliefs.

Weird isn't it?
I'm the same.

I dont follow how politicians are more able to speak out once they are the governing party?

Surely they are more pressured to follow party line, especially if they are part of the cabinet? Do you think Rosie Duffield would have recieved less hostility if labour were the government?

But in any case, what sort of politician sees the danger in gender ideology and says nothing about it?

I can see the argument that Starmer might well feel more secure once in government, especially with a decent majority behind him. At the moment I imagine he's trying to avoid talking about it because he knows anything he says is going to piss off one faction or other. A good win would give him confidence. It's something I'm weighing up.

Yes

The same way so many in professional positions are still unable to speak out - and yes it could be seen as cowardly; at the same time sometimes it bodes better to remain neutral or silent until you have more evidence to refer to.

I now feel more able to speak out at work and am finding the same amongst colleagues after the schools guidance. A Social worker on another thread said the guidance had impacted her and her colleagues in the same way.

I've been told by LGBA women that some Labour MPs are now far more GC but don't feel able to be vocal yet. Which is obviously a poor show for Rosie but progress.

A lot has happened in the last year though.

Either way, Tory or Labour, the pressure must be kept up on MPs. Who ever they are. I don't feel voting based on a single issues such as this is as effective as contacting your mp regularly about your concerns and experiences.

This is the thing.

Yes. In answer to the question.

I've been trying to figure out what it is that really bothers me so much about Labour and this issue. It could be the Facebook group, the money from GLAAD (and Ferring re the LDs), Starmer's hostage video for Penis News which he has not distanced himself from, Dawn's attempt to have us all arrested, or the Official Silence in opposition on this issue, or even the whipping to vote for the GRR in Scotland.

But often, the question is posed which might provide the answer. Which is: what's really the difference between Labour and the Tories? A key example is the two child limit.

And that - copying the same policy - sparked a thought today about their policy on immigration. They're planning pretty much the same policy. You could put a cigarette paper between the two. Speaking of which, they're so pro-telling you what to do that they'll copy the absurd smoking ban that raced up Sunak's list while breast binders and PBs and CSHs for kids all remain legal.

But on gender? No they do not say they will follow the emerging Tory line. They will not do the same thing. They won't even make sure their party leader meets the one MP who's been highlighting this issue largely alone.

I do understand the anger towards the Tories on this as they have been in government. However, I always place it in the global context where we've managed to have a stay of execution. But I do not and cannot understand the excuses rolled out for Labour or the wishful thinking that it'll all be grand when they're in government on this. I think it's dangerous in fact.

The inconvenient truth is that the signs are they will not protect women and children and we will go Full Canada. We will be disappeared as a sex class under Labour.

Floisme you’re right, Starmer might feel more confident once he’s won the election; but I’m not sure whether his confidence will be expressed as supporting women’s rights, or introducing self id, and everything which goes with that. I really wish he’d make it clear!

Cross post with Rex who said it so much better!

I suspect self ID. Just look at Labour in Wales.

Love the idea of a tactile voting site. Fluffy or knobbly, perhaps.

@ResisterRex thank you that was an excellent synopsis - particularly about going full Canada. Things are bad there. I met a teacher at a standing for women event in Hyde park. She said they were treading insane books to kindergarten kids. Also she mentioned at least 2 parents who'd had their kids removed because they wouldn't support transition.

Scary stuff. Particularly as Keir is so apparently centrist on everything else! Where he needs to be more left he isn't.

I live in a Labour strong hold and was happy about that until Tony B-Liar went all nu-Labour stealth tory and then attacked Iraq off the back of no WMD after millions of us marched in town and protested. I said I'll never vote Labour again.

I will never vote Tory so that left me with a dilemma.

As the Lib-Dems allied with the Tories then I'll never vote for them either, they trashed their own party when they did that IMO they're dead duck in the water already.

I wouldn't have a clue what Green's manifesto is but I'll either not vote or vote for an outlier.

I do believe the trans agenda is driven by huge global corporations though and they are already dismantling our democracy. So my vote would be for any party prepared to push back against the political control that the wealthiest entities on our globe are taking from local politics.

@LittleMissSunshiner

Two excellent articles on who is funding the trans lobby

fullmeasure.news/newest-videos/transgender-lobby

www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/01/the-billionaires-behind-the-lgbt-movement

I don't believe Starmer actively wants to bring in self ID. But I'm not convinced he wouldn't concede it as part of a deal, if he thought he could get away with it. This is why there's no way I'll be telling Labour my voting intentions until I've ie manifesto - I don't mean their mission statement (or whatever they're calling it) I mean the real thing. it's only one vote but it's all I've got to bargain with.

That supposes that Labour see the manifesto as a binding document with accountability and will behave honourably.

As opposed to seeing it as a don't frighten the horses/ enticement to get your vote document resulting in ha, you can't stop us now for five years once in power.

Which is the model that Labour have gone for in their most recent time in power. With not much respect for law, or ethics or morality on the way.

They will further not be honest about their intentions about self ID, because it would risk losing them the election. And frankly will make them look like a bunch of insane muppets, because it doesn't hold together in the slightest and requires you to say out loud that you don't care about women's rights, homosexuality, child safeguarding, parental rights, yada yada, and you're heavily into male supremacism (at best, I could add many other things there, PIE among them) and totalitarianism. Or to identify as not seeing any problems or evidence and look insanely delusional: we've had politicians try that way out but it doesn't look any better. The guts to openly own this stuff out loud is missing in most people with a grain of self awareness for obvious reasons.

If you want to know what a Labour government is most likely to do once they have power, look at the SNP and Wales. And Canada.

I suspect starmer wants the tories to bring in some reform or at least guidance around trans ideology, and he intends to kick any pressure to row back on that into the long grass. I dont think he'll bring in self id, but unless someone is willing to do something about men without a grc getting female passports, self id is going to continue unofficially anyway. The only politican ive heard who seems concerned about how easy it is for men to get female passports is Miriam Cates.

The new problem for women will be around hate speech and the possible introduction of a definition of misogyny. Itll be used by men to prosecute GC women.

Remember even the SNP didn’t put Self ID in their manifesto but did commit to talking to everyone - which they had to be shamed into and only after they had already drawn up their bill.

I agree. The biggest danger is if Stamer needs the LibDems to prop him up. Though he himself knows what a woman is, I fear he might be willing to trade women’s rights as part of a deal to get LibDem and Labour left wing support on things he cares about. (Probably centrist economic policy.) He may be less confident that he will achieve the thumping majority that the polls predict, which is why he is not committing.

There is some history being repeated. It was apparently the LibDems during the coalition who brought the notion of self ID into Tory policy. Theresa May was lead with a LibDem counterpart and they met with Stonewall. May did not seem to understand the implications or dangers, and liked the praise for being progressive. The captured Civil Servants did not warn her, so self ID was proposed. It was only the consultation results that caused the Tories to think/rethink. Keir, in contrast, will know exactly what he is doing if he gives away women’s rights. He needs to reassure voters that he won’t, otherwise there will be a group of voters who may decide not to back him.

The lab party are on shaky ground with the trans ideology anyhow. As I said I live in a labour stronghold, always has been probably will continue to be so, KS is my MP.

There's huge swathes of devoutly religious communities most especially muslims of all types, sikh, greek orthodox, and jewish. Plus there's a long tradition of old skool 'womens' lib' and feminist activism in my area going back to the 70s and those women are very much alive and still kicking.

I can't see how anyone wanting to retain the vote in my area could possibly promote the trans agenda and win... it would be a turning point.

I do think Tories will get my vote as they seem to be the only lot to give a damn about women's lot. It's like during lockdown when single parents of whom women make up the majority were struggling to make ends meet. Rather than let them go without the government bullied by Marcus Rashford fed the kids.

It's like how women - of whom tend to be in lower skilled, less paid jobs, are always at the center of government policy. I have to date not met a woman who struggles to afford bills, childcare or suitable employment. I do think it's great the tories know how to define women tho!!

But the main thing for me is that I've always been a true blue - it's just I never could voice it openly so I'm grateful this gender stuff has come along! The sheer relief is immeasurable! I can be blue vocally blue in peace! At last!