Will Gender Ideology influence how you vote?

[Heylo]

Hi, new to Mumsnet. Full disclaimer I have no kids yet but will start trying March 24 (lesbian with some embryos in the freezer!). I decided to join after the hilarious responses to the Dawn Butler debacle over the weekend.

I’ve historically been a Labour voter but I’m voting Tory next year because I’m concerned about women’s and children’s rights in relation to Gender Ideology. The lesbian scene especially has been culturally bulldozed by the new additions to womanhood & a lot of us (in our 30s) now self - exclude based on some of the militant trans rights activists (TRAs) pressuring women into taking on trans women as partners and socialise more closely with them. (Only media reporting on this is Telegraph & The Daily Mail. There has been a media blackout on this at the BBC and The Guardian). Actually a couple of women have tried to run same - sex speed dating nights but TRAs have sent them threats, doxxed them to their employers and called the venues to get the nights / events shut down. You can read more about that here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12401009/amp/Lesbian-speed-dating-event-sparks-transphobia-row-organisers-insist-adult-human-females-attend-popular-weekly-event.html

Anyway sorry for the segue, my question is to anyone who is interested in answering- if you are historically a Labour voter would the Gender issue sway you to voting conservative?

its a big topic at the moment in Gender Critical lesbian and bi circles. Everyone is usually a Labour voter but we’re all worried about what craziness Keir Starmer is going to introduce re erasing women’s spaces. I was curious what Mumsnet users think as outside of lesbians you are the next group (parents) who are most affected by this.

The biggest danger is if Stamer needs the LibDems to prop him up.
Yes this worries me too. I also think anything less than a good majority would leave Starmer seriously weakened within his own party, and that's when I start imagining some kind of Angela Rayner / Ed Davey double act in government...It might yet convince me to vote Labour, if only to try and avoid a hung parliament.

I also agree with Zut's point. I think it's quite possible that Labour will abandon self ID but instead bring in hate speech legislation that would seriously restrict our ability to defend single sex spaces.

I'm not a 'member' of any party, ie I've never taken a paid membership or affiliation.

But for those women here who have, no matter whether you're red or blue, please can you tell me - are you able to express your concerns to your party ? Local Cllrs ? MPs ? Is there a way to flare 'key issues' or do you get to fill in any sort of questionnaires?

Should we all be doing this? Letting them know that the trans issue is affecting our vote?

Former LP member here. Left over the issue of self id.

I'll be voting for my Conservative MP who knows and is unequivocal in stating what a woman is.

The alternative candidates (LibDem and Labour) are both full on TWAW.

Do I want to vote conservative? Hell no, but I'm done spoiling my ballot (which has been my tactic for the last 5 years now).

I'm also "over" people telling me to think of the greater good and the bigger picture. To me, the erasure of women's rights IS A BLOODY BIG PICTURE.

Labour has come some way from endorsing self id but not far enough. Not by a long shot and I'm not convinced that in power (with the current cohort of MP's) that they won't make huge concessions to the TRA lobby when they do get in power.

If they need to strike a coalition deal with the LibDems then the outcome will be worse.

I do think Starmer has been a bloody coward on this issue and has so many splinters in his arse I'm not surprised he cannot sit down long enough to reflect on his own incompetence.

Gut feel is that Labour will win the next GE but that's because the Tories have handed it to them on a plate. But there's still an opportunity to press Labour on this issue and Starmer to soundbite safeguards for women's rights on record.

I know for most of the population this isn't a voting "gotcha" but come the GE run up I absolutely expect the Tories to hold Starmers feet to the fire on this issue and I'll admit I'll enjoy them doing it.

Yes.

I've written to my MP (Tory) who is fully GC.

Also to the Labour and LibDem candidates (fully TWAW). They don't care. I'm just a big old meanie whose concerns about child safeguarding and women's rights are "scaremongering" against the most vulnerable/oppressed trans women men in the country. They'd look at a picture of Isla Bryson's ill concealed todger in pick leggings and still say "woman".

DojaPhat I hear what you’re saying, but in truth I’d rather be cold and hungry than forced to choose between transing my child or having them removed by the state. I agree it’s all shit

I forgot about the malign influence of a coalition. Which might be what gave self-ID rocket boosters to begin with.

See also the Noah thread for the faith in which Doja appears to be posting. Would be a shame to derail this one in particular

This is my concern. There’s only got to be a situation where the majority is small, or where Starmer wants to get a piece of legislation over the line that is unpopular with his MPs, and MPs will be able to call the shots. That’s when there's a risk that accepting self-ID becomes the trade-off.

There have been so many Labour MPs who have been vocally TWAW and anti-GC that I just don’t trust them.

That's a good point - how much of the civil service and institutional capture happened between 2010 and 2015 (Cameron/ Clegg government)?

Lynne Featherstone was out the blocks early doors on this IIRC. Arguably they had undue influence, since they didn't win the vote. At the time - as a general thought not about this but about them in government - I recall people thinking they would temper the worst of the Tory excess.

How wrong that was.

Yes ResisterIRex, I remember thinking the same at the time, hmm....

I've had an uneasy feeling for a while that I might be over-focussing on a Labour government and self ID legislation when the real threat might lie somewhere else.

This is how I end up going round in circles. I've lost so much respect for Labour but, if push came to shove, I'd take a Starmer government over a hung parliament any day.

Well. Look at the SNP. Already down that road but then along came coalition and the Greens...

In both cases (Tory/LD, SNP/Green), women and children were the first thrown under the bus. What for? Mollifying in the former(?) and thinking it was the route to independence in the latter (that is the popular theory for Scotland anyway).

Women and children already get ignored in central government thinking and policy. Seems that may get worse, the more men-focused parties are at the table arguing over what they want.

It's a theory anyway!

This
SDP have no candidate in my constituency, yet. If they manage to field one I'm certain they will appeal to the demographic here. There are many politically homeless people.

This thread has really made me think. I've been against changing the Lords since all this kicked off as I think it's either the only reason or a key reason why we haven't seen wholesale removal of rights like elsewhere.

I'm now against anything other than FPTP. PR would be the Trojan horse that ends our rights. I think we've a right to know what we are voting for. Tony Benn said it best:

"...it seems to me that people want a representative when they vote. The idea that every Liberal or Labour voter supports every item of Liberal or Labour party policy is absolute nonsense. People want to be represented. Introducing proportionality completely destroys the idea of representation.

…Every person whom we meet in our constituencies is our employer the bus driver, the street sweeper, the home help, the policeman - and has the power to remove us. Our constituents expect to be represented. They decide whether they agree with our views and whether we have done a decent job.
Any element of proportionality, which destroys that link, could lead to people being governed by a Government whom nobody had voted for, because nobody would know the basis of the coalition on polling day. At least the coalitions of the parties are transparent: people can see them developing and know what they are voting for and what their own Member thinks."

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmhansrd/vo981105/debtext/81105-17.htm

Same here, although I've not come to any conclusions yet.

I voted for PR, botched as it was, because I thought it was at least a start. Now I think we probably dodged a bullet.
And I used to think coalition governments were more sensible because it meant opponents were forced to talk to each other. Now I'm thinking about all the wheeler dealing involved and what compromises are made - and who's most likely to lose out.

Yes it’ll definitely influence my vote. Dawn Butler’s little outburst reinforced that decision. I shudder to think of the damage to women’s rights we will suffer under labour, not to mention that I’ll probably end up in the clink for expressing my opinion.

Dawn’s outburst show the totalitarianism at the heart of this movement. She wanted police to investigate mums purely because someone told her that someone had posted something she disagreed with. She did not even look herself, let alone consider how arresting people for opinions was the work of states such as eastern Germany, China, or North Korea.

The thought of power being given to people who think this is acceptable is horrifying.

Exactly @SaffronSpice, it’s absolutely chilling.

On being arrested for internet WrongThink...imagine the Online Safety Bill in the hands of Dawn and co. Yes it is another example of an issue that's caused Tory splits/friction/delay. But they're at least mostly fearful of going all the way and making it possible for something like that to actually happen.

Don't forget that Iain Anderson crossed the floor of the house to join Labour - with the specific intention of furthering the Stonewall agenda. I get it that people want to believe and so will do anything to evade and avoid that which is presenting itself very clearly.

Only a few weeks ago Lisa Nandy was being interviewed suggesting that we would all "look back and feel ashamed" at the way we rejected " trans rights". Michael Cashman sits in the lords and as with most of the other gay or lesbian Labour MPs is scathing about women who raise objections and concerns.

And let's not forget that not one person has stood up in public for Rosie Duffield - in fact Labour supporters are trying to get her ejected from the party.

Look at the Labour Members of the Women and Equalities committee. They have no intention of back-tracking.

Is Dawn Butler your MP? If you live in Brent, please write to her expressing your feelings about her outburst.

This won’t influence how I vote, but only because Labour stand close to zero chance of being elected where I live.

Look at the Labour Members of the Women and Equalities committee. They have no intention of back-tracking.

I agree with the rest of your post Rebellious but let's not forget that the chair of that committee is a Conservative - Caroline Nokes - who has been pretty hostile to Kemi Badenoch.

I no longer believe this is a straight left/right issue and I think it's a mistake to treat it as one.

I think the tories are despicable, immoral and dangerous. They've hurt this country in ways that will be hard to undo.

But Labour is not speaking for me either . I joined the party post Brexit and left recently because of their "Make Brexit work stance". Dawn Butler has only convinced me to stay out.

My gut feeling is that we are all safer if labour is in power and we all work hard and lobby to rejoin and to stop the gender insanity.

But it's not a hill I am happy to die on

I imagine the parties has profiled me as middle class older mum, staunch remainer and concerned about women's rights and decided my vote is not worth much.

I do think we need to look at the candidates themselves, not just the party. There are a few Labour MPs I would be pleased to vote for on this issue, and several Tories I would avoid. But after the experience in Holyrood, I would want to be confident a Labour MP would go against a whip.

My gut feeling is that we are all safer if labour is in power

Safer from what though? I think the Tories are tired from being in power too long. They have some policies I think are wrong. And frankly they should be doing far more over the capture of public bodies by genderists. I am not convinced they are especially corrupt compared to other parties though a spell out of power can help with that. But that is nothing compare to the totalitarianism, the censorship, the use of police to enforce specific creeds that Labour seems so beholden to.