"Transphobic bullying is rife": 15 y/o trans boy's view of coming out at school

[ButterflyHatched]

A rare and refreshing example of the mainstream media actually publishing a young trans person's own words on the subject of their own existence and how the government's draft guidance is likely to affect the people it directly pertains to.

‘Transphobic bullying is rife’: a 15-year-old trans boy’s view of coming out at school | Transgender | The Guardian

Guidance for safeguarding children does not need input from children, who have no idea what they need to be safeguarded from. Daft to ask them.

Exactly. You wouldn’t ask children how to safeguard from grooming, especially if adults had subjected them to it.

Guidance for safeguarding children does not need input from children, who have no idea what they need to be safeguarded from. Daft to ask them.

Up to a point. Sometimes children might be aware of safeguarding problems that might not have occurred to adults.

Hahaha Jazz Jennings looks NOTHING like a girl, even with all that medication and surgery. I saw a bit of the last series (or possibly the previous one) where he was sitting around with a group of his friends, all supposedly "trans girls" Unfortunately for them, they just look like a bunch of young men with long hair.

My experience is that it's the other way round. Children don't see so many things as abuse until they mature / age / have it explained to them. It's why children are so susceptible to grooming by adults - because they don't have the insight / experience to name an unpleasant, abusive or dangerous experience. Because they see adults as always benevolent. I have a recording of the young adult son of Fred West made after he was imprisoned for his unspeakable abuse and murder of so many young women (including his daughter). His son talks about how "he loves and misses his father and life is hard without him" Children often accept abusive family behaviour because they don't know any different - until they mature and see other families.

I'm not averse to children and young people being consulted. I suspect that there may be an imbalance in numbers with all the adult trans lobbyists encouraging the children they've targeted to contribute. But I strongly believe that this must ultimately be adult led.

Adults hold the responsibility for keeping children safe. It's something that in recent years we have collectively failed to do in relation to this issue.

I think one problem is if adults normalise a lie it’s hard for children to get around it as the indoctrination is already there

Students can respond, not least as it applies to FE and sixth form. Says so on p5 of the draft guidance.

I agree.

Even if all children responded to the consultation, when you have a generation who are still too young to really appreciate the fundamental differences between a male body and a female one, and who have had it drip fed to them from a very young age that they can choose whether to be a boy or a girl and that it is all a question of identity, I would expect a high proportion of them to respond to the effect that trans girls are girls and trans boys are boys because anything else would be transphobic. It would take an extraordinary level of critical thinking, independent thought and bravery, frankly, for a child to respond, "Actually, we girls have a right to our own toilets and changing rooms, I don't want to share these spaces with trans girls and I don't want to compete against them in sport either."

I don't think it would even occur to them that they had the right to say that.

In reality, however, I would not expect many non trans children to respond to the consultation because responding to government consultations is not something children would normally think to do, so the responses from children will pretty much all be from trans identifying kids and their "allies", egged on by adults.

Yes it’s very hard for a child to override a lie told as truth by a people in authority.

Belief systems that endure tend to have access to dc, religion is a good example

TRAs are aware that the earlier they indoctrinate the more likely gender ideology will survive

Unfortunately for dc it eroded some ability to think outside this new ‘truth’

That’s one of the main reasons it should not be used as it is currently in schools

"In reality, however, I would not expect many non trans children to respond to the consultation because responding to government consultations is not something children would normally think to do, so the responses from children will pretty much all be from trans identifying kids and their "allies", egged on by adults"

Yes - this is all part of weaponising children. Using them to serve the demands of adults imposing a niche ideology on them.

And this is a good thing to start from.

God school is such a minefield, horrible trying to navigate it when you’ve so much unsurity in your life anyway. Really feel for people who have to go through this because of small minded idiots that forget every person is just trying to get through their own stuff

And as a male has absolutely no idea what being female is about. And not only that doesn’t seem to register that this feminist board has many women who were those gender non conforming girls of the past. We absolutely understand what girls experience. This was a rather bizarre thing to post.

Bullying is never acceptable. The guidance by the DofE should not be influenced by what children believe is acceptable. That again is a fucking huge safeguarding risk right there. But a person with no fucking idea about safeguarding in reality wouldn’t see that.

If a person has a belief that defies material reality and demands that they be treated as the opposite sex because they say they should be, why on earth should any person believe anything else they say is credible and based on a balanced view of the world.

I think that the lie (coming from adults who transitioned in later life -after puberty) - is that all would have been well, they would never have been bullied, they would have met social milestones (?biological milestones) if only they had transitioned as a child and had hormone blockers/surgery. And if only school had gone along with this.

Life's not like that. People are bullied for all sorts of reasons. You can never throughout a lifetime pass as the opposite sex. And why do you need to?

You may have experienced prejudice because of sexuality or not conforming to gender roles of masculinity and femininity but that does not mean that you must bolster them by encouraging non gender conforming young people to internalise conflict and transition to conform to gender stereotypes.

Amongst many other things: I was a tomboy. I wear trousers. I left school at 16. I have several degrees. I have been raped. I don't have a gender identity. I have long hair. I started my period at 12. I have been hospitalised for depression. I have 2 children. I am menopausal. I am not girly. I am just me and I am a woman and that includes diversity.

It’s also just plain bullshit that their lives would have been better if they’d transitioned as a child/teen. 9 times out of 10 these men have had a successful career and a wife and kids before transition. They wouldn’t have had any of those things if they’d been sterilised as a young person and then had to endure years of surgery complications.

I think that those that say this are wearing huge rose tinted glasses, but then I suspect that they see themselves as trail blazers for a victimhood minority,

Yes I agree. A teenager who could be out there doing the best they can in their exams, finding things out of school that they're good at and developing a sense of purpose, competence and self esteem instead ends up derailed with the focus on a never achievable goal.

When people start using my new name I'll be happy
When people start using my pronouns I'll be happy
Once I've started puberty blockers I'll be badly
Once I've started hormones I'll be happy.
Ooops, still not happy, maybe that's because I now need surgery and on it goes until so many life options are closed to them by the path they've been pushed down.

And this cannot be repeated often enough.

Mature adult men claiming to know what is best for a group of children who the majority have very different reasons for seeking transition based on their own experiences which don’t resemble the majority of the current cohort of those seeking treatment. But who are there giving advice and guidance. Including to female people who they constantly show disregard for.

Actually I think it is important to consult children about things that affect them.

BUT consulting them does not mean taking their responses at face value. You need to ask the right kind of questions and then consider the patterns and structures revealed by how they express their views or what they choose to raise. You need to actually analyse the data, and all the views expressed by a broad and representative range of people. It’s also
a good idea to triangulate it with other evidence.

people’s views on what the problem is or they think they need to solve it and what the actual problem and best solution is are often a long, long way apart.

Which is to say, listening to children’s point of view is a good idea but let’s not pretend they fully understand the issues or have the vaguest idea what the answer might actually be. it also needs to be all children and in a way where you hear their genuine views - not what they think is expected. Deciding to consult the so-called ‘trans kids’ and no one else is often dangerously unhelpful.

StragglyTinsel

The issue with asking trans kids is that they are going to be the ones that have been gaslighted and brainwashed in to believing in the gender ideology.
Very very few will have any actual personal idea preference.

I agree.

And for a lot of them, I don't think they actually believe they would have had a different life if they'd transitioned earlier. Most men know that if they don't have a working penis, they're not going to have a fulfilling sex life, ffs. (The durr there is silent)

They just need children to transition in order justify their middle-aged decisions. My opinion, of course.

There's nothing about these man that says they care about young girls or boys!

Yes, I know/know of three trans women in my wider social circle.

One transitioned about 20 years ago, had surgery and the works. Doesn't pass. In a relationship with another trans woman.

The other two are both married with children and have "come out" within the last year.

Well exactly. Thats why you need very careful analysis to interpret the results of a consultation.

Taking it all at face value and insisting it’s an objective reflection of reality is ridiculous.

You also have to ask the right questions. And prove. And cross check.

Because it may well turn out that the ‘bullying’ or ‘transphobia’ they are reporting is, in reality, nothing of the sort. No matter how keenly the feel they are the victims of transphobic bullying.

It's always so heartwarming to see people on Mumsnet misgendering trans people while also being rude about their appearance! Merry Christmas to you.