"Transphobic bullying is rife": 15 y/o trans boy's view of coming out at school

[ButterflyHatched]

A rare and refreshing example of the mainstream media actually publishing a young trans person's own words on the subject of their own existence and how the government's draft guidance is likely to affect the people it directly pertains to.

‘Transphobic bullying is rife’: a 15-year-old trans boy’s view of coming out at school | Transgender | The Guardian

I mean there won’t be one

im optimistic not stupid

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12711047/Transgender-activist-female-murders-ethics-rules-therapists.html

Chappell said a spike in murders would not matter.

And here's the recording of him saying it, the utter psychopath:

https://twitter.com/chrismceleny/status/1439888354259111937?s=21

Programme's gone from BBC Sounds unfortunately.

Brilliant post Margot. Whilst lobbyists will do everything possible to dodge such clear and focused questions, and to obfuscate as much as possible to conceal the truth of what they are demanding, we should be able to expect a clear, comprehensive and truthful response from those in power or seeking to be in power. The clarity of thinking and of definition you’ve demonstrated in your post should be fundamental to government policy on this issue.

And this is spot on:

“I do not think it is legitimate for trans people to effectively demand that the rest of us have no word for Group 1 purely because some people who are in it do not wish to be in it and some people who are not in it wish they were.”

Anyone checking back on this poster’s history would very much understand they are not posting from good intentions. It is always quite interesting though to see the new thought experiments being trialed every few months.

Maybe one day a thought experiment might work out for them. That would be a cause for celebration. It might stop, or pause at least, the repetitive posts that raise significant red flags for safeguarding issues and the others with obvious (well, obvious to some) emotional manipulation and actually be a constructive interaction.

Mind you, these are constructive interactions. Those reading along get an opportunity to see the mechanisms of the minds of those who repeat the theories that provide such weak support to the concept that any male can claim to be a woman and that then falsely rewrite history that female single sex spaces are for anyone who claims to be a ‘woman’ or ‘girl’. And those reading along can get a real time demonstration of how to prop up that weak support is even more dishonest leverage of other groups.

It is all here. I am sure it is a mind fuck to read and unpick and analyse these posts. And to see very clearly that this poster attempted to use this teenager’s story as a ‘gotcha’ intended to highlight how very very harmful the new schools guidance is going to be. Whereas, on reading the article it shows a teenager suffering from common issues suffered by female children for generations. That a male poster is now using to further pry open the safeguarding cracks that had been exposed by ideologically driven advice from biased and ill informed so called ‘expert’ groups.

Obviously, they are not alone, they are merely following the tactics used by many on other platforms. This thread is really just another superb illustration of where narcissistic philosophical theory meets objective reality and that theory unravels to nothing.

Sometimes there's little point in arguing with those demonstrating contempt for women. When there's no empathy, insight or understanding and someone has openly stated that their presence on this board is merely to wind up scold bad women who believe in reality, equality, fairness and safety for women and children, then they're not posting in good faith.

This is happening because finally society is waking up to the terrible harm that's been done to children by letting transactivism run unchecked in schools. Sports bodies are shaking off their Stonewall chains and returning hard fought for women's sports to women. It's a slow process but it's happening, hence transactivists ramping up their scolding and abuse. So:

Transactivism in schools and child healthcare is dangerous and harms children
No, men may not share changing rooms, showers etc with teenage girls or women.
The word woman is taken - it's women and transwomen.

Yes. It's concerning enough that butterfly is annoyed over the government's attempt to safeguard the pupil in this article and other pupils like them.

But it's really disturbing that butterfly can't even see it. Or if they can they don't care.

When a grown male thinks a female's sartorial choices and dislike of a specific sport needs medical intervention and calls themself a feminist (!), it's a pretty safe bet that they are not coming from a 'good place'.

Those are brilliant posts @MargotBamborough and @Helleofabore Although I could have done without such a ghastly reminder of the grim Chappell Arabella 😁

Yes we were warned, pretty comprehensively, that any gains we made in this issue would result in the ramping up of misogyny from the trans lobby.

And because they have no real argument, it literally just comes across as ranting nonsense. Hence operation let them speak.

That awful man saying it doesn't matter if more women are murdered, for instance. Suddenly, the insanity is truly exposed.

It's really quite depressing how many men truly do hate women. And this movement is a magnet to them.

Don't mind me, I'm just adding footnotes and gifs as kind of grotty receipts to the more eloquent posts.

😁

It's really quite depressing how many men truly do hate women. And this movement is a magnet to them.

Yes. It's a pulsing, seething mess of woman hatred. Rage and disgust and contempt for women is the stuff this whole movement is built on. Once you see it it's all rather grimly obvious.

That's where I'm at.

Do we have any comment or reflection from the OP on the points in the Cass Review about homophobia, sexual abuse, parental sexism and parental coercion yet?

Or about detransitioners at all?

Well erm no we can't because that term is a term for a subset of the group formally known a women not the whole group. The trans boy you care sooo much about you started this thread isn't in it, which makes it a bit tricky to track the impact of testosterone on women because you have excluded the women who are most likely to take testosterone from the data collection. You were asked for a word for ALL female adult humans.

Coming back to my earlier point about the different groups, @ButterflyHatched, I would suggest the following solution.

Group 1: All adult humans of the female (i.e. childbearing) biological sex, regardless of whether or not they have any kind of gender identity. (This group expressly excludes all males, regardless of gender identity.)

Group 2: Most adult humans of the female (i.e. childbearing) biological sex, including all those who have a female gender identity, those who have no gender identity and those who have never heard the term "gender identity" but excluding adult humans of the female biological sex who believe they identify as something other than female and including adult humans of the male biological sex who believe they identify as female.

Group 3: All adults of the male biological sex who believe they identify as [whatever it is they are identifying with], plus all adults of the female biological sex who agree that they share that same identity.

Group 2 is struck out because it is not a real group that actually exists, many people included within it do not wish to be, and we do not need a word for it. As stated above, it is a group of people with nothing in common and there are no situations where we need to discuss this imaginary group of people or make separate provision for them.

Group 1 retains the word "women", as per the regular usage of this word for the last 1000 years or so.

Group 3 get their heads together, agree on what it is they are identifying with, and come up with their own word for that. If they believe they need their own toilets, rape crisis groups and sporting categories they can campaign for them, without taking these things away from Group 1.

@ButterflyHatched Do you have any objection to the above solution? If so, what is it?

Piping up for the lurkers here, thank you. This is fascinating. And enlightening. As ever.

also, i am absolutely loving the deliciousness of the irony that @MargotBamborough wasnt murdered by JKR after all but is in fact alive and posting on mumsnet.

Should I decouple myself from the struggles of other trans people because a genetic quirk and fortunate timing means I'm not currently in danger of being challenged when using single sex spaces?

Why not show solidarity with other trans people by using single sex spaces for your own sex and encouraging all trans people to do likewise?

Some people say they are the opposite sex. But they don’t seem to understand/care how this sex thinks and feels. How very… odd.

Probably because blokes like him get a kick out of invading women's spaces.

Naw, stay coupled to all the other males with gender identities and all use the gents.

Problem solved.

Thanks for explaining.

So you identify as a trans person whose allegiance is to other people who identify as trans. You are not concerned at all with the rights or wellbeing of women and girls because they are not like you.

What makes you, as a male who identifies as a trans person, think that you should have the right to barge into women's spaces and use them as though you belonged there?

Your concerns should surely be about finding solutions which work for you and others like you (other adults who identify as trans people), but which don't harm other groups such as women and children.

Your concerns should surely be about finding solutions which work for you and others like you (other adults who identify as trans people), but which don't harm other groups such as women and children.

butterfly’s concerns are clearly only about solutions that work for butterfly and trans women.

Butterfly has decided that women and girls don’t matter, other than as props in this. it doesn’t matter if they come to harm.

I don't think it was suggested you should do anything for selfish reasons.

Rather, I think it was suggested that your position would largely destroy single sex spaces and cause harm to women.

So the idea is that you shouldn't harm women, where "women" is given its ordinary and normal meaning; rather than the bizarre redefinition we see today.

Well, there is a Latin term that was initially used in 1914 in a German sexology book, first used in English in the context of sex/gender in 1994, has been featured in published works since 2006 and has been featured in dictionaries since 2015 which uses the commonly-accepted antonym for 'trans' ('across from') to mean 'on this side of'

I've seen this before. Could you explain precisely what a 'trans woman' is 'across'from'?

Guessing there is no answer to margots question yet

got a few more pages to go though….sooooooo