"Transphobic bullying is rife": 15 y/o trans boy's view of coming out at school

[ButterflyHatched]

A rare and refreshing example of the mainstream media actually publishing a young trans person's own words on the subject of their own existence and how the government's draft guidance is likely to affect the people it directly pertains to.

‘Transphobic bullying is rife’: a 15-year-old trans boy’s view of coming out at school | Transgender | The Guardian

"Should I decouple myself from the struggles of other trans people because a genetic quirk and fortunate timing means I'm not currently in danger of being challenged when using single sex spaces?"

I couldn't give two hoots over who you think you should couple or decouple from. People born with a penis are male, they should stay out of women's facilities no matter how they identify.

I think you'll notice that for all the women arguing with you this isn't a theoretical question for us.

To take one example, a bar/gig venue near me no longer has women's and men's toilets, but both are mixed sex now. I haven't been back because the loos were already dodgy there (usually broken locks) so no way am I going to risk using them with men coming in.

I suggest you start considering women's realities, we can't just identify out of them.

That endless struggle of being denied access to female-only spaces because you're male. Pardon me if I don't have a shred of sympathy for these intruders.

It's quite something to see so much energy being put into persuading women that men must have access to our teenage daughters and ourselves when we're undressing.
Thank heavens that the draft guidelines for schools will put paid to that dangerous assumption.

I would have sympathy if I believed hatched had CAIS, but the only thing I genuinely believe them to be after so many contradictions/revisions/revelations is (generously) an unreliable narrator.

I’m sure the vast majority of lurkers and posters on these threads feel the same way I do. It’s interesting to see the usual wonderfully robust and logical arguments being presented, and seeing the regular posters come up with ever more eloquent and convincing rebuttals, but I do feel like I’m indulging hatched just by reading, and even more so now by posting.

One internet cat at a keyboard is really not worth the time and effort of so many brilliant women, but at the same time, I’ve really enjoyed some of the posts it’s produced. Conflicting!

Yes. I no longer have sympathy for people who are devastated by women refusing to offer themselves up as validation fodder.

I understand that some men are very angry that women are not willing to offer pretend 'sisterhood'. Too bad.

Not if you're sad.
Not if you're angry.
Not if you're lovely.
Not if you're 'harmless'.
Not if you really, really want it very badly.

Men cannot be women.

Get your own spaces, and leave us alone.

People with CAIS can’t be trans (they are recorded as female at birth and are completely androgen insensitive so can’t transition to transmen).

People with CAIS are phenotypically female and only discover that they have XY chromosomes when menses do not begin by age 16/17.

Hatch claims to be ‘intersex and trans’ so cannot have CAIS.

There would be no feasible reason to send a CAIS girl to GIDS to ‘transition’ her into a transwoman!

Oh. Well, that's a bit confusing.

Confusing is one word for it

i have others

I am ver diplomatic Rufus.

i did hear a rumour arabella 😀

In 2021, butterfly’ claim was that doctors at the adult gender identity clinic suggested that butterfly might have mild androgen insensitivity syndrome (MAIS) but it was just a theory (for butterfly’s model transition). But no one felt it was important to follow it up and ‘maybe I should be tested’.

As the mother of a daughter with a mix of XX and XY chromosomes due to ‘acquired chimerism’ (via a bone marrow transplant with a male donor) it’s beyond annoying when males who want to use female
only spaces appropriate rare disorders in order to leverage the resultant Kindness response.

CAIS girls are girls phenotypically and socially and grow to be women phenotypically and socially.

They do not have an incongruent gender identity and they are usually completely blindsided when they receive a diagnosis in their late teens as they are girls and no one would consider them anything but girls (albeit often on the taller side).

Obvs CAIS women are infertile (and the jury is still out on whether CAIS women should be classified as having a ‘female sport sex’, but CAIS is nowhere near as advantageous as say, 5ARD) but they are observed female at birth and live their lives as women without ‘transition’ (so cannot and should not be described as transgender).

Butterfly posted that Butterfly had recently been diagnosed with PAIS earlier this year. (Can't be arsed to find the post.)

If true, that would be yet another incident of GIDS appalling failure to properly rule out differential diagnosis before transing kiddies, as noted by Cass.

Yes, I remember this.

How on earth would a doctor diagnose PAIS years AFTER the patient was castrated? 😬

I am inclined to believe that butterfly has identified as having tested positive for a DSD, 20+ years post transition because it suits the more super special than even the other super special people narrative.

It’s like reading one of those dreadful YA novels where the main character is the most super special person in the history of people and the entire universe revolves around them. They’re uniquely perfect at everything and always have extra reasons why they’re more special than anyone else.

Hopeful bump.

Funny thing. My brother came out as trans in 2006. He was sent for every test under the sun to see if there was a genetic element somewhere. Brain scans, genetic testing, actively looking for something that was physically abnormal. All came back perfectly normal.

My point is, that was what was happening in 2006 to someone in his 20s. My understanding was that was pretty much the standard response at the time.

Odd to only get a diagnosis 20 years after the fact in that context.

Allegedly there was some genetic testing. just genetic testing to identify the specific gene involved.

That said, I’m going to leave this here: “Although no formal diagnostic criteria for identifying AIS has been established yet, karyotype mapping, elevated level of serum testosterone, normal or elevated level of serum FSH, LH and estradiol, radiological imaging of pelvis and molecular genetic testing showing mutation in AR gene helps in the diagnosis of AIS.” (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7322742/#:~:text=Androgen%20insensitivity%20syndrome%20is%20a%20X%2Dlinked%20recessive%20genetic%20disorder,preventing%20masculinization%20of%20male%20genetalia.)

Yeah, you ain’t gonna get ‘an elevated level of serum testosterone’ if your gonads have been incinerated as medical waste!

The NHS seems less certain that there is are definitive genes for AIS than Butterfly.

“If someone in your family has AIS and the specific gene causing it has been identified, it may be possible to have a blood test to check if you carry the same gene and are at risk of passing it on to any children you have.”

If the specific gene has been identified suggests it may not be as simple as just checking the AR gene.

Of course, butterfly will have had model presentation meaning diagnosis was totally straightforward and unambiguous. We are all just meanies for being skeptical.

Would it be so hard to at least try and engage in good faith, without another round of misgendering me and implying that simply living my life as I have done without issue or harm caused for the last two decades is some kind of sinister plot?

I've given up on people like Helleofabore who are clearly so heavily entrenched in seething hostility to anything that a trans person says or does that it's like trying to have a conversation with an oppositional toddler who denies everything offhand, but having gone through pages upon pages of pantomime interrogation to reach this point, I'd really like it if we didn't just reset back round to the GC starter pack comments again.

You really aren't coming across positively, nor painting people who share your views in a favourable light when you do this.

Men are not women.
Males are not women.
No means no.
Good faith doesn't need emotional blackmail.
Nor props.

Still no comment on the Cass Review?
That'd be good faith on the topic in the OP.

I think you’re going to have to get used to hearing “no”.