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Original poster

Society ‘disappears’ ageing women. So I harnessed that cloak of invisibility to do all sorts of ‘inappropriate’ things

128 replies

IwantToRetire · 15/12/2023 21:38

This is the title of a Guardian article, and personally I wasn't that inspired by how the author chose to use her "invisibility", but then I dont have much imagination!

But it did make me wonder if any on FWR has felt that as they get older they become more invisible? And does this make you withdraw or does it make you angry / angrier?

The notion of becoming invisible as an ageing woman has become an accepted trope.

My friends and I, from our late 50s onwards, were first gobsmacked then increasingly enraged at being talked over, not served, not replied to, brushed aside and not taken seriously. Small accretions of casual insult that eroded our hard-earned sense of self and agency.

Instead of simmering in a stew of rage and resentment I began to wonder if that conferred invisibility could be harnessed. If I reframed it as a cloak of invisibility I could do all sorts of things “inappropriate” for my age.

Let’s be clear: invisibility for my cohort is no joke. It’s actually dangerous. It leads to exclusion from the workforce, financial precariousness, growing homelessness, bad health outcomes, elder abuse and silence and inaction in social policy.

Joy and rage are both necessary tools to counter the effects of ageism twinned with sexism. Let’s not accept the tired old stereotypes. Perhaps by wryly donning the invisibility cloak on our own terms we can be disrupters and activists who change expectations around ageing. We won’t manage to completely overturn this last obstacle thrown at us by a tired, dated yet stubbornly persistent patriarchy but we can have some fun along the way dancing out on the streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/11/society-disappears-ageing-women-so-i-harnessed-that-cloak-of-invisibility-to-do-all-sorts-of-inappropriate-things

Society ‘disappears’ ageing women. So I harnessed that cloak of invisibility to do all sorts of ‘inappropriate’ things | Deborah Wood

Instead of simmering in a stew of rage and resentment, I became a purveyor of transgressive acts, using street art to disrupt and spread joy

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/11/society-disappears-ageing-women-so-i-harnessed-that-cloak-of-invisibility-to-do-all-sorts-of-inappropriate-things

OP posts:
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9
AliceOlive · 17/12/2023 09:50

Baldieheid · 16/12/2023 10:08

I think women are always invisible. We think they're noticing us when we're younger. They're not. They're looking at our tits. Let's not kid ourselves.
The Israeli army allowed the 7th October attacks to happen because they totally ignored all the female spotters giving them warnings, for weeks, over the impending attack. They were ignored because they have tits. And the death count is now, what, 20k?

Where can I read about this?

Ofcourseshecan · 17/12/2023 09:58

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 16/12/2023 10:56

I don’t agree with the premise of the disappearing middle aged woman; there are many prominent women who discovered their true womanhood in their mature years, and have achieved plenty of well deserved visibility.

Rachel Levine was 54 when declaring her true self, still serving in a senior role in the Biden administration at the age of 66. Suzy Izzard is 61, India Willoughby is 58, Glenique Frank the Marathon runner is 54, Melody Wiseheart the swimmer is 51; Caitlin Jenner is 74. Robin Moira White, the distinguished barrister, is 59. Sophie Cook , the politician and campaigner is 56.

These ladies should serve as an example to us all that women don’t need to become invisible just because one has reached mature years.

All the names I recognise in this are men.

GarlicMaybeNot · 17/12/2023 10:02

Yes, the examples you've given are fantastic illustrations of effective cultural subversion, by the genderists aiming to break down sexual boundaries and safeguarding, make people think they can't tell male from female and don't understand simple biology, remove women's sex-based rights & protections, legitimise rape and delegitimise homosexuality.

It's as subversive as hell, you've got to give them credit.

One cultural norm they don't wish to change - in fact they reinforce it - is the view of older women as irrelevant, pointless and annoying. Another is male supremacy. Clearly, any older feminist would want to subvert those.

There are various subversive strategies; a serious movement should use them all. Taking advantage of one's perceived insignificance to plant bombs (metaphorical in our case, real in actual war situations) is one important strategy.

AliceOlive · 17/12/2023 10:08

Thanks @Baldieheid

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 17/12/2023 10:08

@Baldieheid could you please archive that article as it's behind a pay wall.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 17/12/2023 10:12

Thanks, got it now. Gah! That's so bloody typical, isn't it. Ignore the women and leave them to be slaughtered.

Baldieheid · 17/12/2023 10:20

GarlicMaybeNot · 17/12/2023 10:02

Yes, the examples you've given are fantastic illustrations of effective cultural subversion, by the genderists aiming to break down sexual boundaries and safeguarding, make people think they can't tell male from female and don't understand simple biology, remove women's sex-based rights & protections, legitimise rape and delegitimise homosexuality.

It's as subversive as hell, you've got to give them credit.

One cultural norm they don't wish to change - in fact they reinforce it - is the view of older women as irrelevant, pointless and annoying. Another is male supremacy. Clearly, any older feminist would want to subvert those.

There are various subversive strategies; a serious movement should use them all. Taking advantage of one's perceived insignificance to plant bombs (metaphorical in our case, real in actual war situations) is one important strategy.

So how can "our" subversive acts make an impact? What do they have to be, to make that impact?

It's hard to imagine anything making an impact, beyond women like me just refusing to play the game.

Example. I don't use wrong sex or made up pronouns. They're for ME to communicate effectively, not an ego soother for a petty tyrant with a mental illness.

I rebel quietly. I never have followed trends - in fact, it's pretty much guaranteed that I will go in the opposite direction. Probably a fancy acronym for that. Defiance syndrome? I AM defiant. I always have been.

Maybe defiance is what is needed? We teach our girls to be good girls, and our boys to be brave. Does it start with that? I didn't misbehave as a kid, but nobody, and I mean nobody, could get me to take part in a school play or eat something I loathed. We need to encourage defiance, don't we.

Just thinking "aloud"...

Baldieheid · 17/12/2023 10:22

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 17/12/2023 10:08

@Baldieheid could you please archive that article as it's behind a pay wall.

I don't know how to, sorry. I'm not a subscriber, but I managed to read it. I'm sure it's covered elsewhere, that was just the first hit.

GarlicMaybeNot · 17/12/2023 10:25

We need to encourage defiance, don't we. Too right!

Baldieheid · 17/12/2023 10:30

I understand the concept of defiance more than I get subversiveness. The latter now is firmly associated ( to me, anyway) with the seedy, fetishistic behaviour of males and their female handclappers, such as in my examples.

Defiance I have. In spades.

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2023 10:37

So are we talking about older white dudes in dresses or actual women who are politically demonised /deliberately cancelled by the Guardian?

Just checking because there's a reason for female invisibility enabled by society.

Blinkityblonk · 17/12/2023 10:57

@IwantToRetire I honestly think being loud and confident and defiant is pretty subversive in a world in which older women are marginalized- refusing to play that social role IS subversive but it's not secret or quiet.

I've said what I think many women could do which is quietly subversive, which is leave their horrid grumpy husbands and live their own lives around their own needs, but many of them are compromised economically and are quite open that that's their active choice and usually for the good of their children, so I see why many don't. But being a happy content older single woman with a rich interesting life is quite subversive, it upsets those who think everyone should be in couples for starters.

Something visible but completely subversive has been women refusing to wear the hijab in Iran. Their bravery astonishes me. I expect though that their silent and more secret resistance went on prior to that, also see Saudi for women just getting on with their lives, driving cars for example, when they know the risks of doing that, which is more of the everyday resistance perhaps you are getting at.

WickedSerious · 17/12/2023 13:30

AvacadoFieldsForever · 16/12/2023 10:33

”subversive guerrilla housewives”

Brilliant

If we ever have an FWR band.

I'll play the spoons.

CampervanKween · 17/12/2023 14:59

Blinkityblonk · 17/12/2023 10:57

@IwantToRetire I honestly think being loud and confident and defiant is pretty subversive in a world in which older women are marginalized- refusing to play that social role IS subversive but it's not secret or quiet.

I've said what I think many women could do which is quietly subversive, which is leave their horrid grumpy husbands and live their own lives around their own needs, but many of them are compromised economically and are quite open that that's their active choice and usually for the good of their children, so I see why many don't. But being a happy content older single woman with a rich interesting life is quite subversive, it upsets those who think everyone should be in couples for starters.

Something visible but completely subversive has been women refusing to wear the hijab in Iran. Their bravery astonishes me. I expect though that their silent and more secret resistance went on prior to that, also see Saudi for women just getting on with their lives, driving cars for example, when they know the risks of doing that, which is more of the everyday resistance perhaps you are getting at.

Absolutely love this, I have dreams of doing this. Thank you for putting it into words.

AliceOlive · 17/12/2023 23:51

Blinkityblonk · 17/12/2023 10:57

@IwantToRetire I honestly think being loud and confident and defiant is pretty subversive in a world in which older women are marginalized- refusing to play that social role IS subversive but it's not secret or quiet.

I've said what I think many women could do which is quietly subversive, which is leave their horrid grumpy husbands and live their own lives around their own needs, but many of them are compromised economically and are quite open that that's their active choice and usually for the good of their children, so I see why many don't. But being a happy content older single woman with a rich interesting life is quite subversive, it upsets those who think everyone should be in couples for starters.

Something visible but completely subversive has been women refusing to wear the hijab in Iran. Their bravery astonishes me. I expect though that their silent and more secret resistance went on prior to that, also see Saudi for women just getting on with their lives, driving cars for example, when they know the risks of doing that, which is more of the everyday resistance perhaps you are getting at.

There’s a book called French Braid by an author from Baltimore, MD names Anne Tyler. I think you might really enjoy it.

She says nothing happens in her books, just people living. But if choosing to live life for yourself is subversive, there is a woman that qualifies.

AliceOlive · 18/12/2023 00:25

French Braid: A novel
https://a.co/d/amQhfdd

Groupofone · 18/12/2023 09:09

The Woman who Went to Bed for a Year is another tale of an act of subversion.

BestZebbie · 18/12/2023 23:32

I'm not sure about invisibility but I do feel that as a middle aged woman I can get away with things like the article that I wouldn't have tried in my twenties as I'd have assumed I'd have somehow got caught or told off, or possibly arrested.

For example today I planted lots of spring bulbs in some waste ground (that used to be a planted verge) near my house - with bags of topsoil and leaf compost and all sorts - and everyone walking by smiled at the lovely community volunteer instead of asking me what I thought I was playing at......but maybe, that is also what they would have done when I was 25, I just didn't realise then?

Like worrying that everyone is looking at your spots when you are 13, but really, they are all just worrying about their own spots...

Disturbia81 · 19/12/2023 10:09

I still don't get this. I feel more visible as I get older. Older women in the next generation up around me say the same. More confident, get taken more seriously, get chatted to more. I'm more seen than I've ever been.
When younger I was ignored by most, general public I mean. And I see the same now, younger people are in their own world and most leave them to it.
Unless people are just referring to being perved on by sleazy men who only like young women. That why is that a bad thing to not have that anymore!?

Blinkityblonk · 19/12/2023 10:46

Thanks for the literary recommendations, I'm going to read those! I haven't read that Anne Tyler, I love her writing in one way but sometimes I need something a bit more plot-driven, I do like the idea of reading about someone middle-aged like me though.

Blinkityblonk · 19/12/2023 10:50

@BestZebbie i think you may be onto something, you definitely feel more visible as a teen then a twenty-something women, I spent so much time faffing about whether people were looking at me and with my appearance. I do still care, but it's very much a start the day looking ok and then don't think about it after that. This not caring allows me to live a more visible life as I plunge into situations or work events less self-consciously. This visibility/invisibility is complex.

AliceOlive · 19/12/2023 20:07

Blinkityblonk · 19/12/2023 10:46

Thanks for the literary recommendations, I'm going to read those! I haven't read that Anne Tyler, I love her writing in one way but sometimes I need something a bit more plot-driven, I do like the idea of reading about someone middle-aged like me though.

I totally understand. I love her writing because it makes me think for days and days afterward. While I am reading it, it's not so exciting. She even says that - nothing happens in her writing.

I watched a movie like that recently on Netflix - The Wall.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1745686/

I do enjoy thinking about how we, particularly women, cope with what happens in life.

The Wall (2012) ⭐ 6.7 | Drama, Mystery, Sci-Fi

1h 48m | 12A

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1745686

EmpressaurusOfCats · 19/12/2023 20:33

I’m a small, greying middle aged woman. I’ve stickered & leafleted in broad daylight in a lot of very public places, snapped a quick photo & wandered off, while nobody around me takes any notice.

For that, invisibility is bloody useful.