Society ‘disappears’ ageing women. So I harnessed that cloak of invisibility to do all sorts of ‘inappropriate’ things

[IwantToRetire]

This is the title of a Guardian article, and personally I wasn't that inspired by how the author chose to use her "invisibility", but then I dont have much imagination!

But it did make me wonder if any on FWR has felt that as they get older they become more invisible? And does this make you withdraw or does it make you angry / angrier?

The notion of becoming invisible as an ageing woman has become an accepted trope.

My friends and I, from our late 50s onwards, were first gobsmacked then increasingly enraged at being talked over, not served, not replied to, brushed aside and not taken seriously. Small accretions of casual insult that eroded our hard-earned sense of self and agency.

Instead of simmering in a stew of rage and resentment I began to wonder if that conferred invisibility could be harnessed. If I reframed it as a cloak of invisibility I could do all sorts of things “inappropriate” for my age.

Let’s be clear: invisibility for my cohort is no joke. It’s actually dangerous. It leads to exclusion from the workforce, financial precariousness, growing homelessness, bad health outcomes, elder abuse and silence and inaction in social policy.

Joy and rage are both necessary tools to counter the effects of ageism twinned with sexism. Let’s not accept the tired old stereotypes. Perhaps by wryly donning the invisibility cloak on our own terms we can be disrupters and activists who change expectations around ageing. We won’t manage to completely overturn this last obstacle thrown at us by a tired, dated yet stubbornly persistent patriarchy but we can have some fun along the way dancing out on the streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/11/society-disappears-ageing-women-so-i-harnessed-that-cloak-of-invisibility-to-do-all-sorts-of-inappropriate-things

Well if no one wants to talk about subversive acts, that's it then.

It's irrelevant whether the article is in the Guardian, or the act of subversion is a bit arty farty.

Its more if you were able to get away with it, would you carry out an act that expresses your politics (feminist or other) because you have realised most people dont notice you.

But then of course, maybe no one on FWR is interested in subversion!

What is a subversive act? Something illegal or something that would be disapproved of by...well, who? It's not like there are societal rules any more. Anything goes. Teachers have tattoos and green hair and speak about their sex lives to their pupils. Piercings are old hat. Boooooring. Wearing latex to your job at a children's charity is soooooo mainstream. Putting women in the mma ring with blokes is what now counts as sport. Wtf is "subversive"? Crochet?

I visibly express my politics though, through writing and speaking.

My friends who are politically oriented are out there and try to get visible.

I'm not sure what you could do that would be politically subversive but unnoticed if you did it? My students are glueing themselves to things or sitting in the road for the Extinction Rebellion but they are doing it to get noticed.

I think leaving their horrible grumpy or plain nasty husbands is probably the most subversive thing most of my women friends could do.

I’ve not felt I’ve become in any way “invisible” as I’ve aged, and I turned 70 this year. Neither do I feel inclined to acts of subversion, whatever they might be. I do express my opinion when I want to and don’t let myself be intimidated or ignored, particularly by men. I’ve learned that the more confident I appear, the more likely I am to be taken seriously. And I’m not exceptional, I know other women my age who feel the same.

OK I have found it easier being a 50 something mum to get away with naughty stuff than I did as a 20 something. Because people expect you to be better behaved. You generally are, as you have more of a stake in society, perhaps a reputation to uphold. But that's nothing really to do with being invisible. People just expect older people to be more law abiding, and perhaps they are on the whole.

My subversion has generally been limited to smuggling alcohol into nightclubs to save money and tbh I've generally got away with it. When I was younger, it was because I was pretty, now it's because they don't expect a middle aged woman to be doing it.

I thank you! [preens invisibly]

Wtf is "subversive"? Crochet?

Neither do I feel inclined to acts of subversion, whatever they might be.

Glory be! The patriarchy has collapsed, female biology is no hindrance, society automatically considers the needs of women and girls, women's voices are given as much attention as men's, there is no sex inequality.

No more battles to be won 🥳🎉 Might as well close feminism and relax with a nice pore-minimising face pack.

In all honesty probably younger than her age. I think men of about 60 seem to be less interested than say 40s. I'd say probably late 30s and up

Surely the answer to the problems are the patriarchy aren't to keep reiterating older women are invisible and have to do secret subversive things- it's to be very visible, loud, confident, involved in local, national, international politics, to campaign for the causes you believe in? I still don't have an example of this subversion because I don't believe in it- the best (and most annoying) thing is to be visible and not accept the designation as invisible (or at least give it a good push back).

Also, to add to this, my great granny had a marriage proposal when she was 90 (she turned him down 😂)

So I find articles about women becoming invisible to men post 50 quite bizarre tbh. Maybe this is wistful thinking on my part, but all the older women I know are still visible and desirable IMO

the best (and most annoying) thing is to be visible and not accept the designation as invisible

If that is true why do so many share images of flyers or flags or ribbons that someone has "subversibly" pssted, tied or whatever.

If this is just silly and not subversive why do so many celebrate when shown an image that illustrates it has been done.

Obvious being subersive and strident are equally important, and its funny how many have gone out of their way to say they would never be subversive.

Quick, send a memo to all those women thinking they have had a real impact but subversively highlighting women's issues, campaigns.

But not all these you have mentioned are women are they.

Yep, exactly same thoughts went through my head

theright sort of women get noticed a lot-very publically

🤦‍♀️

When I was 29 I had my long blonde hair cut off and sported shorter hair (no more than an inch and half probably) ever since. Loved it. I got so much less attention.

Couple of years later I dyed it black. Male attention dwindled to almost nothing. That was truly delightful!

10 years later, married and 7m pregnant - I'm even more invislble! Oh, unless some arsehole driver thinks it would be fun to make the pregnant woman run, by deliberately driving stright at me at speed when I'm crossing a road....

Pushing dd in the pushchair. Not quite invisible again. For instance, I'm pushing her down the road, a group of men suits are coming up the road. There is room for all of us butthey need to bunch up a bit or even (shock horror) go into single file for a moment or two. What do they do?

As they are clearly well paid executives, with responsible jobs which require use of their enormous brains, they LITERALLY climb over the pushchair rather than give way. CLIMB OVER DD IN THE PUSHCHAIR.

Utter utter arseholes.

I got myself a mobility scooter some years ago. I haven't been treated as invisble since. This, too, is delightful. People recognise me, chat to me, say hi, blah. Shopping takes FOREVER! I love it.

I know quite a few powerful older women, older women who have often had to trudge on and work much harder than the men in my field and so they tend to kick ass more when they get there.

That is a subversive act, @Blinkityblonk. As you say, they had to overcome more barriers to achievement and kick more ass when they got there.

The world's most powerful people, per Forbes, are all aged 38 or older. That makes sense because, even if you inherit your empire from your father like Salman Al Saud, there's experience to be gained, ground to cover, connections to forge and a reputation to build.

Of those 75, just 5 are women: 7%.

But 40% of their 30 under 30 rising stars are women. That list was launched in 2011, and their 2012 rising stars were 30% women.

So let's say, taking changing times into account, you should conservatively expect the top achievers list to be about a quarter female. It isn't; it's less than a tenth. Why do a high number of promising women fall out of the running?

We know, don't we. There's a reason many women discover feminism when they have their first child - their drive, dynamism & ideas are suddenly overlooked and they're seen primarily as baby-producers. The big pay rises suddenly stop coming, and that widening gap never recovers. They become 'irrelevant'. Then they get older, and society's ingrained tendency to be nice to pretty young women no longer applies (if it did). They're now in the structurally disadvantaged position they might well have thought wouldn't apply to them.

So, yeah, the women who make it are even more amazing than the men who do. A lot more amazing, going by the numbers. But of course few of us, women or men, are that amazing. Structural disadvantage still applies. Overcoming it is subversive, whatever your status. And, as it applies to us going on with our lives, it's wise to ask what we can effectively do from the positions in which we find ourselves?

Thank you for attending my TED consciousness-raising talk.

Shit, I mistitled my Excel table! It's 2012, not 2021.

All that trawling the archives, and I uploaded a fucking typo 🙄

When I was younger I was really apprehensive about being older but now I am I bloody love it! I'm so much more confident and prepared to speak my mind. I also think being around awesome GC women has really helped, seeing some of the older women talk at Let Women Speak events, no one could say those women were invisible, in fact they're strong, fearless and bloody inspirational ( as are a lot of younger women I've met ). We as women can all learn so much from each other if we let go of the sexist assumptions we've inherited from the prevailing culture.

Absolutely, Appalonia. Meanwhile, we do live in the prevailing culture. It does affect us. That's not to say we should agree with its assumptions!

None of these are women. That's the joke!

So we need to undermine the status quo to be subversive, according to the dictionary. Dismantle the "establishment".

To repeat my previous post, wtf is subversive now, here in the UK?

Men wearing latex body suits to their work at the RSPCC and filming themselves wanking in the bogs?

Green haired non binary primary school teachers describing their sexual preferences to their pupils?

Male swimmers watching female swimmers change into their costumes, whilst hiding their boners, without the women being allowed to object? Lia Thomas.

A male winning woman of the year? Caitlyn Jenner.

Police forces recording male sex offenders as females?

Women losing jobs for stating biological reality?

That subversive enough for you?

Only the last of your examples relates to older women, @Baldieheid, and none to undermining the patriarchy (or "establishment") and furthering women's liberation.

You're giving us fantastic illustrations of effective cultural subversion. By the genderists. Want to propose some for women to do, or would you rather just sit there throwing shade?

I'm trying to get to the meaning of "subversive" and the examples I've given are, to me, doing what the definition says on the tin - undermining the established norms. The norms I grew up with, anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these ARE the norms now? We certainly see enough of it.

So is current "subversiveness" my little old lady self just living my little old lady life?

I do think you're seriously wrong about none but my last example applying to women. We're adversely affected by each and every one of those, directly or indirectly. Your inability to understand that is rather disturbing.