Society ‘disappears’ ageing women. So I harnessed that cloak of invisibility to do all sorts of ‘inappropriate’ things

[IwantToRetire]

This is the title of a Guardian article, and personally I wasn't that inspired by how the author chose to use her "invisibility", but then I dont have much imagination!

But it did make me wonder if any on FWR has felt that as they get older they become more invisible? And does this make you withdraw or does it make you angry / angrier?

The notion of becoming invisible as an ageing woman has become an accepted trope.

My friends and I, from our late 50s onwards, were first gobsmacked then increasingly enraged at being talked over, not served, not replied to, brushed aside and not taken seriously. Small accretions of casual insult that eroded our hard-earned sense of self and agency.

Instead of simmering in a stew of rage and resentment I began to wonder if that conferred invisibility could be harnessed. If I reframed it as a cloak of invisibility I could do all sorts of things “inappropriate” for my age.

Let’s be clear: invisibility for my cohort is no joke. It’s actually dangerous. It leads to exclusion from the workforce, financial precariousness, growing homelessness, bad health outcomes, elder abuse and silence and inaction in social policy.

Joy and rage are both necessary tools to counter the effects of ageism twinned with sexism. Let’s not accept the tired old stereotypes. Perhaps by wryly donning the invisibility cloak on our own terms we can be disrupters and activists who change expectations around ageing. We won’t manage to completely overturn this last obstacle thrown at us by a tired, dated yet stubbornly persistent patriarchy but we can have some fun along the way dancing out on the streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/11/society-disappears-ageing-women-so-i-harnessed-that-cloak-of-invisibility-to-do-all-sorts-of-inappropriate-things

The definition of insanity - or futility - is doing the same thing over & over, expecting a different result.

If you expect to unravel thousands of years of youth and beauty being worshipped by trying to look youthful & beautiful past middle age, you must have inexplicably overlooked the experience of approx. 200 generations of ageing women.

Older women who quietly pooled their knowledge and collaboratively acted on it, however ...

I don’t expect to unravel it. You do.

I'm not outraged at the thousand years stuff, that's patriarchy for you, but your own attitude I did fine disappointing!
Also not sure how someone's hair, make up etc affects their intelligence or ability to perform well in their job.

My mum embraces the type of invisibility thats talked about where you can just go against the little social rules like walking across the grass, or putting leaflets in places. Noone notices, or not enough to challenge anyway. But i think being white helps with that. I dont know if she'd be left unchallenged if she wasnt white.

I think theres a lot of women that feel unseen their whole life in terms of accessing society or being respected professionally. And plenty who only feel seen in terms of policing behaviour or a sexual objects.

I think it's possible to be less visible in some ways (as conventionally attractive younger women) and more visible in others (politically, in academic circles age is usually a sign of achievement, economically if you have money). I feel both less visible in terms of attractiveness (apart from some older men checking me out with their wives next to them, that's extremely unpleasant behaviour and I don't know how their wives stand it, I can't imagine going for coffee with my husband staring at someone else) and more visible at work, as it's taken me so long to achieve even a bit of career success. I don't feel invisible though and by stating this constantly, it's reproducing stereotypes of women as irrelevant, I think that's the danger of these articles, just as the new awareness of the menopause is also stereotyping a whole generation as problematic in the workplace again. It's a hard balance between raising awareness and just reinforcing stereotypes about middle aged and older women.

Having always had a face like a bag of spanners means I’ve always been invisible. It used to upset me - especially at work when under qualified but prettier people got promoted before me. Blessed with a high IQ but the face of Jabba the Hut meant I was just ‘there’ but not seen by (mainly male) management.

But now - I couldn’t give a flying fig. I don’t have to work anymore and can flit about doing exactly what I like - being ignored by the world suits me just fine! Being old and ugly means I think I’ve slipped into another dimension and could probably walk into M15 unhindered! I’d be a great spy come to think of it!

I can say with some confidence that I haven't 'let myself go'. It still happens. I found it disconcerting at first but there are compensations. I enjoy being able to chat with random men on the train or in the coffee shop without having to worry about what signals he might be picking up. And I dress far more adventurously than I did when I was young because I figure no-one's looking so I may as well just have some fun.

A poster did once point out to me that to her, as a black woman living in the UK, invisibility would be a luxury, which I thought was a fair point and made me stop and think.

Is this really FWR? What's all the misogynistic crap about "not letting yourself go" and "monitoring your food intake"?

(Did enjoy the post about those kickass role-model older women, Suzy, India and Caitlin, though!)

Ford Motors, 1968. These un-chic, unheeded, unknown women, working with others like themselves, won your right to equal pay.

If we're talking about becoming more invisible to random members of the public then I absolutely see this as a blessing. No part of me wants to go back to the days of crossing the road when you see a group of lads, trying not to make eye contact with the pervy bloke next to you at the bar or having to lie that "my boyfriend is the jealous type" just to get men to leave me alone.

I now go through life constantly introducing myself to people I've met before who have forgotten me. I've thought about getting my hair dyed a funky colour or wearing some mad glasses but I've decided to just stop caring. The idea of using it to my advantage is a great one.

Hear, hear!

I thought this thread was originally more about subversiveness than sexual attraction?

I don't think any woman should need to apply anything (make up, hair dye, fake this or that) or make any change to the outside of her body in order to receive fair treatment and appropriate respect, apart from wearing clothing suitable to the climate. After all, men don't.

But, thinking about women in the public eye, there is something in how you carry and express yourself.

Don't laugh at me, but when I was a bit younger and feeling intimidated I occasionally tried to channel Princess Anne - not pretending to be her of course😂, but thinking about how she would carry herself in any given situation.

Maybe it’s more nuanced and you notice those that are like you at your stage and your loved ones?

As I age agree I am now more interested in people mid 40s-mid 50s particularly women but men too to see what they are doing / wearing as they are my peers. I’m interested in girls who are the same age as my teen dds as I feel maternal to them and will look out for them.

Im really not particularly interested in young men or young families as I’m through that stage myself but at other stages in my life I was interested in those groups (for different reasons).

No it's not just about sexual attraction - in fact I find young women ignore me more than men do. It gets a bit frustrating though that whenever a conversation starts up about it, and no matter what board it's on, someone always turns up to tell you off.

It doesn’t. No one said it did.

If you want to argue that how you look at work shouldn’t impact how you are perceived, I’d agree with you. As long as you are adhering to your company dress policy (if there is one).

Conversely I see silver foxes who are suited and booted and exercise so are fit and my god women flock to them. Same with women who still look after their hair and skin, carefully monitor their food intake and carefully select their wardrobe. Of course this is an annoying truth - I didn’t most of my late teens and twenties looking like a scruff but got away with it as I was young. Nowadays have to put in effort. I’m furious but not invisible

In the words of the Great Greer - 'is there NO end to the slavery of attraction duty?'

How very strange. The article is not about being sexually attractive or being noticed.

The article is about whether becoming more invisible as you get older (or rather ageist attitudes) means you can get away with acts of subversion.

As I said in the OP I dont think craft work or whatever it is, is that subversive, but if it makes people stop and think well and good. And yes it is quite bold to just get barriers and signs as though you are carrying out approved works.

So far only one contributor has talked about how being invisible made it easier for them to do stickering or was it leafletting.

How strange that the thread has become about keeping up feminine appearances.

@IwantToRetire thank you for re-stating this i was starting to think i was in an alternative universe, since when has invisibility been about whether or not you wear make up?

They all are. And yes, she knows...

Oh dear have we failed feminism again? Well done to the poster who passed though.

I've always wondered about this stereotype.

My mum is 60 and very pretty and men still fawn all over her. So I don't think you do necessarily become "invisible" over 50. When I go out with my DM she certainly isn't

@MsCactus
Just out of interest, how old are the men that fawn over your DM? Does it tend to be men who are 60+ or a wide age range.

Ive never really understood this invisibility

What is the definition of this?

When I was very fat I felt I was far too visible. Now Im not but Im a lot older, and look a lot older (thanks saggy skin) I dont find Im invisible, quite the opposite, I dont feel people talk over me any more than the average, I get served, I get noticed, etc

I cant stand the Guardian, used to be a great newspaper. Its crap now. I disregard most of what it says

But it did make me wonder if any on FWR has felt that as they get older they become more invisible. And does this make you withdraw or does it make you angry / angrier?

I'm not sure why you are unsure why this thread is partially about attractiveness. That's absolutely the most oppressive thing about being young and female- being constantly judged. It's not surprising that people are then commenting on whether they feel invisible as they age in terms of being in the public space, which is part of what you originally asked. What many women are saying, and I've also noticed, is that you don't just age and then suddenly no-one notices you ever, or doesn't speak to you. That can be seen as desirable or oppressive depending on the interaction and what you want from it.

I know quite a few powerful older women, older women who have often had to trudge on and work much harder than the men in my field and so they tend to kick ass more when they get there. I also don't think looks are terribly important for academics in the main, most female professors are just ordinary-looking people as are the men and there's no expectation about conformity on that front, the harder thing is getting there in the first place given the expectations around motherhood, women's emotional labour in the workplace and stepping back to prioritise men's careers.

The most subversive thing I can do is to keep speaking quite loudly in my career. I also have friends who are into various campaign and political groups now. I think with age comes confidence, for some, and in certain spheres. It can be hard work shouting to be heard and overcoming the invisibility cloak, but in other ways age can give you some motivation and a certain 'not giving a shit' attitude (although many of my friends did have a wobble about the menopause and a couple found HRT gave them back their confidence and lessened anxiety).