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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender Criticals - how are you going to vote in the election?

305 replies

ProfessorFlitwick · 27/11/2023 11:02

My political views are centre-left. I am genuinely unsure how to vote in the next election because I am absolutely not voting for any party that supports harmful woke ideology. I am curious to hear how other GCs are thinking of voting next year?

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 11:05

lifeturnsonadime · 02/12/2023 11:00

It always astounds me that posters think that it is too much to ask a political party to both protect healthcare and women's rights.

I have said this before and I'll say it again, it shouldn't be either or, it would cost Labour nothing (other than pissing of the TRAs and identity politics lobby groups) to appease women. The fact that they don't is on them. Women have every right to demand more from Labour for them to earn our vote.

As a pp has said up thread perhaps the Labour Party enjoy being in the opposition.

I'll leave this tweet here and ask why Labour Party members in the HOL are anti safeguarding in schools?

https://twitter.com/mcashmanCBE/status/1730567854813024511

This.

Labour should be the party of women's rights.

Why aren't they?

I would expect the Tories to prioritise privileged white males at the expense of vulnerable women, not Labour.

Vintagevixen · 02/12/2023 11:06

Sadly I won't be voting. There just is no-one for me.

Voted Labour every election since I got the vote, so it saddens me but they are so in thrall to genderwang I just can't.

EasternStandard · 02/12/2023 11:34

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 11:05

This.

Labour should be the party of women's rights.

Why aren't they?

I would expect the Tories to prioritise privileged white males at the expense of vulnerable women, not Labour.

Generally gender ideology adheres more to the left politically and in the media

It’s not just here but in other countries, here though powerful lobby groups and unions are part of it

Then the media prefer much shows the divide, centre left is gender and TRA

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 12:11

EasternStandard · 02/12/2023 11:34

Generally gender ideology adheres more to the left politically and in the media

It’s not just here but in other countries, here though powerful lobby groups and unions are part of it

Then the media prefer much shows the divide, centre left is gender and TRA

But what is the reason for this?

It has nothing to do with left wing ideals, arguably quite the opposite as it encourages individuals to prioritise their own wants and needs over the rest of society. That's more of a Tory outlook.

EasternStandard · 02/12/2023 12:24

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 12:11

But what is the reason for this?

It has nothing to do with left wing ideals, arguably quite the opposite as it encourages individuals to prioritise their own wants and needs over the rest of society. That's more of a Tory outlook.

I’d see it more from the idea of progressive politics and also on the side of the minority vulnerable

So having to progress, include etc but a major factor is that the law backs this up

The GRA and EHRC / other mean women have little recourse and institutions mark highly countries that adhere to this type of men’s rights over women’s

It’s really tough and I’m not sure how we’ll break it

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 12:32

EasternStandard · 02/12/2023 12:24

I’d see it more from the idea of progressive politics and also on the side of the minority vulnerable

So having to progress, include etc but a major factor is that the law backs this up

The GRA and EHRC / other mean women have little recourse and institutions mark highly countries that adhere to this type of men’s rights over women’s

It’s really tough and I’m not sure how we’ll break it

Edited

But it's only on the side of this one group who have decided that they identify as a vulnerable minority.

People who are actually vulnerable minorities, such as Muslim women and women in prison, can go fuck themselves apparently.

EasternStandard · 02/12/2023 12:33

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 12:32

But it's only on the side of this one group who have decided that they identify as a vulnerable minority.

People who are actually vulnerable minorities, such as Muslim women and women in prison, can go fuck themselves apparently.

Yes it’s abhorrent

They have the law on their side sadly. The GRA

We just have to keep pushing, as many women have been thankfully

SolitaryBee · 02/12/2023 13:43

It has been an absolute revelation for me being on the “wrong” side of an accepted left-wing belief. I didn’t realise how tribal my(our) political assumptions were. I am now much more cautious about believing the narratives, “Tories are evil, greedy, corrupt, NHS-destroying scum while Labour/libdem/greens/SNP are righteous, caring, good NHS saviours”.

I live in Scotland and have previously voted LibDem/SNP and occasionally Labour depending on constituency and candidate. I will be voting Tory in the next election. However bad, corrupt and incompetent the Tories are, the SNP/Green coalition in Scotland is worse. The SNP have been in government at Holyrood longer than the Tories in Westminister and they have not achieved a single thing. Everything is worse here, education, ferries, NHS, covid response, policing, drug deaths, census, misogynistic legislation. They have mismanaged everything and done it with a complacent, condescending smirk while lining their own pockets. Matheson is just the latest in a long line of holier-than-thou-but-normal-rules-don’t-apply-to-me liars to disgrace our Scottish parliament.

So yes, I will be voting Tory. I look on it as a protest vote. I will vote for them rather than any of the parties who supported and applauded the woman-hating legislation Holyrood passed this year.

Crankywiddershins · 02/12/2023 16:47

I live in a Labour safe seat and there are always lots of fringe left candidates on the ballot. I'll probably vote for the Communist Party of Great Britain.

boudiccathecat · 02/12/2023 16:52

Th communists are gender critical, they would be a good option

HelenaTranscart · 02/12/2023 16:52

Completely agree, I hate the Tories but I'll vote Conservative to get rid of the Scottish Nasty Party and their Green masters

axolotlfloof · 02/12/2023 19:10

Note this post has been found by TRAs on Twitter, so watch out for an influx of crazy.
I will vote Lib Dem if I am convinced the candidate is GC (I think he is).
Otherwise I will vote Tory for the very first time.
However I live in a Tory safe seat so probably doesn't matter anyway.

TempestTost · 02/12/2023 19:57

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 08:45

Some Tories have been very open about wanting to replace the NHS with an insurance based system.

As ever, the devil is in the detail. The USA and France both have an insurance based system. Healthcare in the USA is pretty patchy and there are vastly different outcomes depending on how much people can afford to pay for their health insurance. In France the healthcare system is very good and people on low incomes have access to state funded health insurance to cover the part of their treatment that would usually be funded by private insurance, and some things such as cancer treatment and maternity care are completely free at the point of use.

If we could have a system set up like the NHS which offered the same quality of healthcare as they have in France, I'd defend it to my dying breath. But it sounds like the NHS is in an absolute shambles at the moment and so I don't think it's unreasonable to consider different models.

Yes, this.

For a long time I felt that the NHS model, or one very close to it, was best, but I've come to think that it may well not be a sustainable approach, especially since our sense of what counts as "healthcare" is much different than it was 50 years ago.

The UK is not the only country having similar issues with this kind of approach, which is really what made me rethink it. That, and the fact is that some other models that are more like France's, seem to give better outcomes overall.

While I understand that people worry about something like an American system, the way many left parties have responded to suggestions of a new approach, or change, is not helpful. It's immediately branded as evil capitalist you don't care about the poor stuff.

It seems like they care more about certain point of principle in the model, rather than the actual outcomes produced. And that's just the problem all round with the LP.

TempestTost · 02/12/2023 20:03

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 12:11

But what is the reason for this?

It has nothing to do with left wing ideals, arguably quite the opposite as it encourages individuals to prioritise their own wants and needs over the rest of society. That's more of a Tory outlook.

It's more complicated than that. Conservatism actually is very much about social and group stability for example. Whereas liberalism, of which there is plenty in the LP, tend to be very individualistic.

But also, you have to remember that there are large sections of the left that have always been happy to trade off the good of certain groups for that of others, and sacrifice individuals for the group. Look at the way the middle classes and elites are treated in the various communist revolutions worldwide - with terrible brutality, even when the individuals involves were quite humble people.

It all depends on the hierarchy of oppression. And it tends to be a very flat analysis, with no real ability to understand that the social hierarchy of groups in a society can be very complex and changing, and that there are different kinds of power and privilege.

SamphireAndSalmon · 02/12/2023 20:58

SidewaysOtter · 27/11/2023 11:31

I can't bring myself to vote Labour, I don't trust them. They might be changing their tune now, but it's only because they realise their previous stance was a vote loser and not because they've genuinely seen the light. I don't trust Labour with the economy, either.

The MP here is Tory and he's been supportive of women's rights. Much as it might stick in my craw, I may well hold my nose and vote for him.

Please don't do that. I know it's fucking infuriating. But PPs are right. The wind IS changing. Let's not cut iff our noses to spite our faces.

Comfortablechair · 02/12/2023 21:24

Completely my dilemma and I’ve looked at this from all angles. I cannot in good conscience vote Tory - incompetency and surge right is not me. Labour I fundamentally do not agree with at least 2 of their big policies. It was really eating me up but I have decided to abstain and not vote. It’s a huge weight off my shoulders TBH. Whatever will be will be but it won’t be down to me.

MargotBamborough · 02/12/2023 21:25

SamphireAndSalmon · 02/12/2023 20:58

Please don't do that. I know it's fucking infuriating. But PPs are right. The wind IS changing. Let's not cut iff our noses to spite our faces.

Is it?

I haven't heard anyone from Labour admit that they were wrong about this.

SidewaysOtter · 02/12/2023 21:56

SamphireAndSalmon · 02/12/2023 20:58

Please don't do that. I know it's fucking infuriating. But PPs are right. The wind IS changing. Let's not cut iff our noses to spite our faces.

Don’t tell me what to fucking do, you have no right to do that. This tedious “Please vote Labour, you know it’s the right thing to do” gets right on my tits.

I’ll vote whichever way I fucking please.

GrowAndGreen · 02/12/2023 21:59

For the Workers Party if they field a candidate in my constituency - They know what a woman is.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 02/12/2023 22:07

I going to ask my local candidates exactly how they are going to ensure SSE when the government give men female id, and everyone seems confused about what exact is meant by the PC of GR.

If they look confused, or start to waffle, I'll know not to vote for them. Im only going to vote for someone who understands the issues and is willing to do something about it.

The number one issue for me is safeguarding. If politicians cant do something so fundamental, they wont be able to do much else.

TrainedByCats · 03/12/2023 00:13

SidewaysOtter · 02/12/2023 21:56

Don’t tell me what to fucking do, you have no right to do that. This tedious “Please vote Labour, you know it’s the right thing to do” gets right on my tits.

I’ll vote whichever way I fucking please.

This ^^

Dineasair · 30/04/2024 23:08

SolitaryBee · 02/12/2023 13:43

It has been an absolute revelation for me being on the “wrong” side of an accepted left-wing belief. I didn’t realise how tribal my(our) political assumptions were. I am now much more cautious about believing the narratives, “Tories are evil, greedy, corrupt, NHS-destroying scum while Labour/libdem/greens/SNP are righteous, caring, good NHS saviours”.

I live in Scotland and have previously voted LibDem/SNP and occasionally Labour depending on constituency and candidate. I will be voting Tory in the next election. However bad, corrupt and incompetent the Tories are, the SNP/Green coalition in Scotland is worse. The SNP have been in government at Holyrood longer than the Tories in Westminister and they have not achieved a single thing. Everything is worse here, education, ferries, NHS, covid response, policing, drug deaths, census, misogynistic legislation. They have mismanaged everything and done it with a complacent, condescending smirk while lining their own pockets. Matheson is just the latest in a long line of holier-than-thou-but-normal-rules-don’t-apply-to-me liars to disgrace our Scottish parliament.

So yes, I will be voting Tory. I look on it as a protest vote. I will vote for them rather than any of the parties who supported and applauded the woman-hating legislation Holyrood passed this year.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Dineasair · 30/04/2024 23:18

Yes, this issue will determine my vote, I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for any party that doesn’t know what a woman is or any party that doesn’t put child safeguarding first, I might even hold my nose and vote Tory. They won’t be the majority party in Scotland but at least they might have an increase in seats and therefore votes, and that’s too useful to the GC side to discount.

Runskiyoga · 01/05/2024 07:53

It depends on Labours direction of travel from now

ArthurbellaScott · 01/05/2024 07:58

Runskiyoga · 01/05/2024 07:53

It depends on Labours direction of travel from now

Yes. There is time, but Starmer needs to buck up.