Gender Criticals - how are you going to vote in the election?

[ProfessorFlitwick]

My political views are centre-left. I am genuinely unsure how to vote in the next election because I am absolutely not voting for any party that supports harmful woke ideology. I am curious to hear how other GCs are thinking of voting next year?

Same, SNP are completely captured, as is Scottish Labour. Greens are loonies, Lib Dems - well, nuff said. I hate the Tories (grew up under Thatcher in Scotland) but for the 1st time in my life I will hold my nose and vote Conservative as a protest because of the insidious push for self ID here. Will keep an eye on Alba and that Wiley Coyote Salmond though...

But the answer isn't just better support for young people though, is it?

Better support for young people with gender dysphoria will help those young people but it won't make a jot of difference to the women and girls whose rights are being trampled all over by this movement.

The answer also needs to be telling men "no".

No, you can't use women's toilets.
No, you can't compete in women's sports.
No, you can't be transferred to a women's prison.
No, you can't have free access to all women's rape crisis groups.
No, you can't force everyone to pretend you are a woman.

No.

And that's the part Labour will never do.

My constituency is strong Conservative although the LibDems have been gaining ground over the last 2 general elections. We'll have a new Tory candidate, as yet not chosen so an unknown entity. I'm very keen to kick out the Conservatives, very keen and would vote Labour but that's simply a wasted vote here. But I have real problems with the LibDems stance on single sex spaces, etc.

Am considering joining the Labour or LibDems just so I can 'piss on the inside' so to speak.

OK, but also, the Tories aren't doing it. And this has become an issue since they have been in power. Labour were last in power in 2009/10 and this issue was much smaller then.

IF there were better public services, better support for young people who might be trans and have gender dysphoria, better support for young people and vulnerable people generally, then there would be a knock on effect to people having generally better mental and physical health, a better society, and fewer of these kinds of issues coming up in the first place.

An approach of 'tell them no' and 'stamp it out' fails to address any of the actual underlying issues that lead to societal problems developing in the first place.

We need better investment in public services, which is the part the Tories will never do.

The GRA is the catalyst

Women have lost the legal basis for a no to any man in their space

You could repeal it or make sex biological sex in Eq A and treat dysphoria in another way

It would make much more sense, not be based on a falsehood and protect women and children

One reason - there are several - why I've grown to despise my old party is that I have never once heard them acknowledge that the GRA that kicked off the whole shitshow was passed by a Labour government.

In fact Annelise Dodds still sounds like she's proud of it.

I see lots of bluster from Labour supporters about what's happened on the Tories' watch (all of it correct) but, if they're going to win back my respect, I need to see some awareness of the part they played. Otherwise I'm inclined to think they haven't actually learned anything.

I suppose I just don't see how a Tory vote is going to help when the Tories are the ones who have been in power since 2010 and haven't prevented any of it.

A Tory vote simply maintains the status quo.

The Tory government have shown themselves to be incompetent in so many ways, including this.

If they were going to do anything then they would have done it by now, they have had ample opportunity.

Labour at least will invest more in public services that will support people.

Labour will fund public services to do what exactly?

Discriminate further against women? Remove women's accessible services so that a political lobby doesn't throw a tantrum? Make sure there's no funded refuge or rape service left where a woman can go unless she's prepared to pander to a male's inner self ahead of whatever she needs and will pray to the God of Stonewall like a good girl? You only need to look at the Labour councils, the SNP and Wales to see exactly where they're dying to run.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Tories are weaker than bloody wet spinach and I'm furious about the limp mess that their great big fuss schools announcement has turned out to be, that protects political arses and not children or anyone in schools. But I'll settle for utterly bloody wetly useless but at least voices of dissent are getting heard over let's gallop women and girls' rights into oblivion.

The Tories have seen which way the wind is blowing. They understand that this stuff goes down like a shit sandwich with most of the electorate and they at least won't bring in self ID.

Labour think the Tories haven't done enough to protect trans trash women's rights.

Labour are fully signed up to gender ideology

Look at treatment of Duffield. It can get worse, women hounded out of jobs, plus Labour are proposing to make GRC easier. They are closer to lobby groups and unions who are captured

Also there is looking at biological sex in progress which is our only hope atm

An approach of 'tell them no' and 'stamp it out' fails to address any of the actual underlying issues that lead to societal problems developing in the first place.

The underlying issue is that predatory men are never told no. They never have consequences. They invade our spaces and rape, assault and harass without penalty (except in less than 1% of cases). They are especially never told 'no' by the liberal left who are fundamentally and ideologically opposed to criminalising sexual assault and violence because it doesn't fit in with their view that people only do crime because they're depressed or oppressed.

It's currently 16 Days of Ending Male Violence Against Women and what is the strategy on the left? Asking men nicely to stop raping and murdering women (the MAAATE campaign / White Ribbon Campaign). How's that working out?

OK, but also, the Tories aren't doing it. And this has become an issue since they have been in power. Labour were last in power in 2009/10 and this issue was much smaller then.

That only makes sense if the GRA and PC of GR are good policies, but the conservatives mess them up.

Starmer is on record saying he thinks that they are very good Acts. I don't know how he would implement them better for women and children?

This.

Not telling men no is the problem.

Telling them no is the solution.

Troubled youth will eventually find some new way to self harm once being trans is no longer cool, which shouldn't be long now it's being championed by 60 year old Lib Dem councillors.

I am reduced to spoiling my ballot paper. As someone who is a carer for a disabled loved one and has helped them through the PIP application process I can’t vote Tory, especially not for the current iteration of Tories (and I don’t need schooling in how it was Labour who introduced PIP, thank you, I know that, but it was the Tories who brought in the dehumanising so-called assessments where applicants are expected to perform like trained seals). Plus I’m under no illusions that the Tories are any friend to women; they’ve just read the room quicker on gender ideology and are using it for political advantage. The fact it’s slowly reversing some of the tide of trans takeover that was/is to the detriment of women is good, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day, as they say. In almost all other respects, Tory political ideology does not align with my core values.

But neither can I vote for any party which either is prepared to lie about what a woman is, or genuinely believes in genderwoo bollocks, because if they’re so dishonest or so out of touch with reality, how can I trust them to make sensible policies which take into account women’s needs?

We never have decent independent candidates here, so as pointless as it no doubt will seem to some, spoiling my ballot paper it is.

I'd rather status quo than a definite self id. At least with status quo we have time for court cases and women to move into positions where they can be useful.
Labour have more than once stated self Id is one of the first things they will do.

This has been an insidious movement that has only recently hit tipping point (because women weren't listening back in 1980 or until now) but now it's at tipping point and things are happening. Not fast true, but better some pushback than none.

I'm not sure who will need public services once half the country cannot go far. Urinary leash.

Unfortunately I'll be voting labour.

Always have been a labour voter and it's a safe seat here.

I'm too working class, disabled, with a SEN child to vote for any other party.

Change can still be lobbied for. No party is perfect.

I’ve never voted Tory. Previously Lib Dem and Greens. Never again for those two. Might have voted Labour but not now. This is quickly getting to be a single issue for me. Not just because of women fought and died for their rights and can see them being eroded and made useless as they’re taken stealthily and not so stealthily away. Not only because this issue is destroying the physical and mental health of our children. Not only because I think anyone who cannot see that sex is real and immutable and that women die precisely because of our sexed bodies is an idiot. But also because I’ve been so disappointed in Starmer, whilst Nandy and Raynor are less than impressive and I don’t trust their political judgement. So I’m stumped. Really hoping for a reasonable independent.

It's important to remember though that the UK is almost unique in having resisted this at all. In a lot of countries they are now fucked with self-id effectively constitutionalized, affirmation only therapy the only legal option, and amazingly even more capture of the media and institutions like the civil service. These are the kinds of approaches that Labour has been advocating for the last 10 years, and made it basically impossible for party members to argue against it while retaining any influence.

The Tories seem like they've been asleep at the switch, but started to wake up a full 5 years earlier than many other countries. And really importantly, while the arty has had a variety of views, they've let it be up for discussion. Which is why the things they were proposing initially got a second look.

They also have been in the last year making some substantial moves towards change. The Cass report being among the most important. This is going to be a long haul, it is tricky legislatively and will require a lot of very careful detailed work, and also institutions like education and the NHS, and maybe worst the civil service, have been severely captured, and they can't necessarily interfere directly with a lot of these bodies. In the end it will probably take as long to dig out of as it took to get there. 10 years, at a guess.

Labour may or may not be better on services - indications seem to be that don't really have any plans to do fund more - but I don't see how they is any reason to think they will be better on this issue. What it looks like is they will be a lot worse.

LIstening to all those who have responded to me.

But like @Jimmyneutronsforehead, I'll still be voting Labour.

The Tories not actually going to make enough changes on this issue to make it worth throwing away the wider changes that Labour will make to public services that this country desperately needs.

The NHS is on its knees and the Tories are not going to do anything about that - they want rid of it.

I'm not going to sacrifice that for these policies, I don't believe that the Tories are actually going to take any action that will make any difference - but I do believe that Labour might just pull the NHS/ public services back from the brink.

As @Jimmyneutronsforehead no party is perfect - to me, Labour is the lesser of two evils, and you can campaign for change (as you would have to do anyway with the Tories).

I more or less agree. I voted Lib Dems for many years, but have recently voted Labour to ensure the Tory doesn't win in my consituency.

I can't vote Lib Dem now, and although I want to be able to vote Labour because they're getting a bit more sensible on trans issues, my MP voted against banning social transition in schools. That could mean he supports the trans rights extremist position.

But if we get another Tory government, I think it will be the death knell for the NHS and many other public services. So I may have to vote for him, especially as boundary changes in the consituency mean it includes more Tory-voting areas now.

@limefrog "The Tories not actually going to make enough changes on this issue to make it worth throwing away the wider changes that Labour will make to public services that this country desperately needs."

I agree.

The problem with lobbying for change once a party is in power is that they can refuse, stating 'it was in the election mandate'. The SNP continue to use that line when women bring up concerns. Nicola Sturgeon stated specifically that a vote for the SNP was a vote for self ID.

Genuinely, please take the situation here in Scotland as a cautionary tale. It's going to take decades to undo the institutional capture of our Government and organisations.

Edited to add - NS said once she was in power that a vote for the SNP was a vote for self id.

Yes if pp are relying on lobbying after think about how much you can achieve. They already have mandate.

Plus Labour need funds for whatever is expected on increased spending, which is looking unlikely

Sadly, I simply can't bring myself to vote Labour any more. I don't believe it represents anyone but a metropolitan elite these days. Their latest appointment to the role of championing women is a stark reminder of this.
I hope a sensible independent stands in my constituency, otherwise it's a spoiled vote.