A side thought ...

[LindorDoubleChoc]

I had a good chat with an acquaintace about her 26 year old son who recently seems to be dabbling in being female. She knows I am quite vocally GC and we have disagreed on the trans issue before. But she did say something a couple of months agp which really gave me a pause for thought.

So her DS is now dabbling in being "a woman". I said "why can't he just be gay?" but he isn't sexually attracted to men, he is sexually attracted to women so is leaning towards being a trans lesbian I think . His Mum says he is turned off by the toxic masculinity of men and doesn't like to be put in that bracket but prefers women on the whole, both sexually and as a SEX. For once I thought - maybe he's got a point. Of course I also thought "being a woman is not something you can opt into because you think women are better" but I think this is what he's trying to do.

So he is not a woman-hating TRA who would send "suck my lady dick" messages to anyone. He just thinks he doesn't like being a man and all it entails (probably not considered deeply all the major priviliges he's already had in his life but that's separate) other than having sex with women.

Is he still toxic and deluded? This is a man I've known from age 6 and I don't believe he is a bad person. He's just turned off by being male. So should he like it and lump it? He's an intelligent boy and will know that NAMALT. But then NAMALT is an insult now. Why has he gone to this other extreme and are there a lot of others like him?

I'm gobsmacked that no one is outraged that the OP and her friend and the son seem to think that it's okay for him to identify as a transbian, as if that's even vaguely acceptable. It's totally homophobic to assume that it's okay for a man to identify as a same-sex attracted woman.

No wonder lesbian groups have gone underground. Ashamed to see no one here sticking up for lesbians. Lesbians, I get it.

Do you reserve your lack of sympathy only for males suffering gender dysphoria or do females that suffer it get the same treatment too?

op, I think it’s worth following this thought and considering it, thanks for sharing. Bit heretical round these parts though…

I'm gobsmacked that no one is outraged that the OP and her friend and the son seem to think that it's okay for him to identify as a transbian, as if that's even vaguely acceptable. It's totally homophobic to assume that it's okay for a man to identify as a same-sex attracted woman.

What? Of course I think it's homophobic. You can check my posting history.

He's unlikely to be telling his Mum the full story.

Indeed Tinsel. It's highly likely his internet habits aren't known by his mum and OP.

Its not out of the question that hes lying to his mum about his motivation.

Its sounds to me that hes using language she is likely to buy into - running away from 'toxic masculinity ' rather than running towards something. Theres a million ways not to be toxic as a man, why settle for transition at such a young age?

'most women think most men are toxic'

Really? Not in my experience.

Same. Here I am, working my socks off to prove that women can be awful nasty pearl clutching viper bastards. And it's all going unacknowledged. 😥

If men want to subdivide the sex class of men into two or more different groups that's cool - go for it! Everyone should be free to say "No, I'm not like those others and I do not want to be classed as the same".

If some people, of either sex, want to define a new, mixed sex group and put themselves in it and fight to be recognised as a different type of human that's great - more power to their elbow! They have a long road ahead but that's not a a reason not to try.

But what's not ok is to identify out of your own group and into someone else's. That goes beyond defining yourself and into imposing a definition onto others.

A man claiming to be a woman is demanding that all women accept themselves being redefined as people with the personality said man belives himself to have because that is the only way in which his self-identifiation as a woman can be true.

And that, regardless of how he may see himself as better than other men, is an act of breathtaking selfishness, sexism, arrogance and entitlement.

There is a poster who has been recently active around these parts, who claims to feel this way about womanhood providing an escape from toxic masculinity.

I suggest a read of their AMA and other threads - which absolutely reek of male entitlement and complete failure to understand anything about women - might be enlightening.

And yet unless I've missed a post (perfectly possible) no one apart from me has commented on the idea that it's okay for men who want to escape toxic masculinity to go off and pretend to be lesbians.

Incidentally he sounds a lot like a chap I know. Lovely kid, but deeply soaked in gender woo (parrots all the TRA catchphrases and gotchas). Genuinely believes that he's got some deep insight that hasn't occured to us boring old women.

There is actually someone else who has posted that, but please don't tell others how to post and when, the thread is less than an hour old!

My DSs (19 and 17) hate toxic masculinity. So they aren't toxic males. They don't need to be women to be nice people!

I think most are taking the view that pretending to be a lesbian is an offensive subset of the larger offensive act and are tackling the overarching point first. I doubt you'll find anyone (except perhaps the OP) is in any way in agreement.

Yes, exactly this, Binturong.

I think this category of trans is growing with teens and 20s age males. I’ve seen some discussion on Twitter about it, it might be worth checking out thoughts of detransitioners who post on Twitter and Substack about their transition and what led them to it. It’s often various factors and they are very reflective. I think the idea of not wanting to be men and if they’re online a lot, seeing the straight white male as being the worst category of person and thus getting out of that.

To be clear I’m not saying I’d want any of these in female spaces, but it does seem to be a thing. Alongside the 100% Malaga Airport types. And who knows if that or porn isn’t a part of it too.

I think my answer is that I'm not that bothered about the motivation of men who want to identify as women, in terms of whether I see them as violating women's rights. It's all colonisation.

OP how do women who identify as nb or anything else fit into this worldview? Do they want to be toxic men? Is a 14 year old with a cervix safe to go into a men’s changing room, men’s rugby team or dorm room?

Is he thinking of Ben Fogle or Louis Theroux or Professor Stephen Hawking?

I think a lot of this is extremism pushed by social media and it’s not good enough to just enable it.

Was that aimed at me? I'm not telling people how to post but surely I'm allowed to comment not just on what's said but what isn't said?

I have a lesbian in the family and she's recently had to call off a pre-Christmas lesbian event because somehow, despite all publicity being discreetly handled and trusted contacts only, word's got out among the local TRAs and there are threats of pickets and men invading and cries of transphobia and worse all over social media. It's made me extremely aware of how no one recognises how particularly tough this is for lesbians.

This.

Is a very neurotic, self centred, shortsighted, fuck anyone affected view.

for men who agree that women are better it can be hard to be male. I guess

that may be so but it still doesn't give those men the right to declare they are now a woman and a lesbian to boot!

So he is not a woman-hating TRA who would send "suck my lady dick" messages to anyone. He just thinks he doesn't like being a man and all it entails (probably not considered deeply all the major priviliges he's already had in his life but that's separate) other than having sex with women.

And yet... he is explicitly zeroing in on identifying as a lesbian. There are millions upon millions of straight women, but he's going for the tiny number of women who aren't interested in men at all.

It's like he looked for a boundary to break. Leaving lesbians alone as a man is the bare minimum and he hasn't cleared that bar.

He could perfectly well continue to define himself as heterosexual, or he could sidestep it entirely and say he's exclusively attracted to women or one of the neologicisms like gynophile. But no, it's "trans lesbian". Given that, I would not be so confident about his internet activity.

Nor would I want my younger sister going out with him. The trans widows can talk to you about why.

I see you! I acknowledge you!

God, that makes me feel unclean!

Now can I go back to swearing and general what the fuck comments?

Yes I think this category of young men is less acknowledged than the groups of lesbian/autistic/abused etc. girls wanting to escape societal misogyny and older AGP men. I really don’t see a non-toxic masculinity or any good role models for boys growing up now. They watch porn from a young age which instructs them in violence and domination over women. I think some of these young people are on some level trying to opt out of their oppressor/oppressed gender roles. It’s totally misguided, offensive and further entrenches those stereotypes though.