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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.

1000 replies

ArthurbellaScott · 18/11/2023 09:31

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew/

I skipped parts of this article, specifically the first person account.

The rest of it I think is an important read.

MeToo unless you're a Jew

Feminist groups are whitewashing Hamas's crimes

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew

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SequentialAnalyst · 19/11/2023 02:38

Early on in the conflict I heard 2 interviews, one after the other, on the BBC World Service.

One Israeli woman, one Palestinian woman. Both, unprompted, began by saying the same words "It's like Hell." Both went on to express similar views - they wanted their DC to have normal happy childhoods, and grow up into happy healthy adults.

IMHO it is not the women to blame for all this.

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 05:50

deepbluebell I'm so very sorry for your loss. Thank you for your eloquent and moving post. I can only imagine the deep trauma that is being suffered by so many.

Some of the odd responses we see are protective and defensive ones. The things we're talking about are horrific to contemplate and sometimes it's easier to shout platitudes than sit in silence with such deep pain.

Sending you my best.

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pickledandpuzzled · 19/11/2023 06:46

Thank you @deepbluebell that was a timely post. I’ll try and remember what you said, as the current situation is hardening my heart against people who don’t deserve it.

Terrifying times.

ResisterRex · 19/11/2023 07:53

Thank you @deepbluebell and I am sorry to hear of your loss.

The video you linked to, is one that haunts me.

Lolapusht · 19/11/2023 09:32

.

Lolapusht · 19/11/2023 09:34

Curman · 18/11/2023 21:35

Has there been any proof of life for any of those poor hostages? I fear terribly for them all but particularly the women.

According to @BabaBarrio the Red Cross have checked on each hostage every other day and the UN made sure they were getting the same food as their Hamas captors so I’m sure they’re fine. Well, excluding the what, 4 or 5 who have been found dead this week.

Lolapusht · 19/11/2023 09:41

@deepbluebell I’m so sorry for what you are dealing with and thank you for your post.

Hopefully it will make some people think further.

PorcelinaV · 19/11/2023 09:46

sonshineandshowers · 19/11/2023 00:11

@PorcelinaV

Oh dear, you've been had.

Rather, you've been "had" by some mad antisemitic nonsense.

Of course Gaza is under blockade. Israel wouldn't be doing their job if it wasn't.

InvisibleDuck · 19/11/2023 09:55

Lolapusht · 19/11/2023 09:34

According to @BabaBarrio the Red Cross have checked on each hostage every other day and the UN made sure they were getting the same food as their Hamas captors so I’m sure they’re fine. Well, excluding the what, 4 or 5 who have been found dead this week.

That poster should probably inform this man https://forward.com/fast-forward/569865/rabbi-hunger-strike-hostages-circle-avidan-freedman-honi-choni-protest/

Possibly inform the Red Cross themselves. From the article:

"A Red Cross spokesperson said Tuesday that the group is committed to facilitating the release of hostages held by Hamas but said it has no access to them"

So much misinformation out there. It's awful thinking about those hostages and what they must be going through. I was also incredibly shocked by otherwise progressive people I know trying to obscure the kidnapping, rape and murder of women as 'resisting colonial occupation' or similar. Justifying it. Truly disturbing.

An Israeli rabbi says he won’t eat until the Red Cross visits hostages in Gaza

Rabbi Avidan Freedman said he won't eat or step outside a circle he drew around himself, until the Red Cross visits the hostages in Gaza.

https://forward.com/fast-forward/569865/rabbi-hunger-strike-hostages-circle-avidan-freedman-honi-choni-protest

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 10:14

"Besides all the Hamas terrorists that were raping and killing their way from house to house are dead. All 1,700 of them were hunted down and killed by IDF by 9th of October.

So that might be one reason why most activists are focused on preventing the deaths of more innocent women and children rather than obsessing about the pathetic excuses of Hamas terrorists that have already met justice."

Have you got any link to evidence this claim, @BabaBarrio ?

Because it was reported a couple of days ago that the IDF had killed one of the four men who paraded Shani Louk's body on the back of a truck. Why one, and why reported now if you know for sure that they were all hunted and killed by 9th October?

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 10:33

I've just seen on twitter that the head of the Sexual Assault Centre at the University of Alberta who was mentioned upthread as having signed an open letter denying that Hamas raped Israeli women, has been sacked.

https://x.com/hillelneuer/status/1725992431168995424?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

https://x.com/hillelneuer/status/1725992431168995424?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

IcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2023 10:49

@deepbluebell thank you. And I'm so sorry.

I've been using Israeli in my posts because I knew some of the murdered and abducted were not Jewish and I didn't want to...feel like I was ignoring them or clutter my post up with long lists of ethnicities and nationalities. However, the targets and the bulk of the victims of hamas were Jewish. Everyone else was collateral. At least prior to the Israeli response, I think hamas can take the blame for them too. They must have had no illusions as to what that response would be and they did it anyway. And they still won't stop, they've started a war they cannot win. They must be under no illusion about that. Their refusal to surrender is prolonging the death and suffering in Gaza.

I'm glad that woman has lost her job. I hope she's also having trouble sleeping at night.

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 10:55

https://www.metoo-unlessurajew.com/

'On October 20th, following the Hamas terror attack on Israel, the 'UN Women' organization published a detailed report under the name “UN Women Rapid Assessment and Humanitarian Response in the Occupied Palestinian Territory” followed by an official UN Women statement on October 27th under the name "In-focus: The conflict in Gaza".'

'Facts
1
During Hamas' October 7th terror attack that triggered the current war, hundreds of Israeli women were brutally burned, beheaded, raped, killed, and kidnapped. The organization did not address or mention any of them.
2
Even though Hamas has been labeled as a terror organization by the US and EU, the organization refers to the October 7th massacre as a "Hamas attack", implying that it is legitimate.
3
The organization published several more articles about women in Gaza. Israeli civilians in general, or Israeli women in particular, were not mentioned in the organization's reports or articles.
4
The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court clearly defines sexual violence as a distinct war crime. The UN Women is turning a blind eye to Hamas' vicious war crimes by remaining silent.
5
A call for the return of women in captivity, including young girls and elderly women, was not made by the organization. A visit by the Red Cross or another prominent human rights organization was not called for either.'

MeToo Unless UR A Jew

Join the global campaign against the hypocrisy of UN Women oraganization.

https://www.metoo-unlessurajew.com

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IcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2023 11:18

Thanks @ArthurbellaScott I've signed the petition.

BeggyMitchell · 19/11/2023 11:30

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 10:33

I've just seen on twitter that the head of the Sexual Assault Centre at the University of Alberta who was mentioned upthread as having signed an open letter denying that Hamas raped Israeli women, has been sacked.

https://x.com/hillelneuer/status/1725992431168995424?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

quantumbutterfly · 19/11/2023 11:51

deepbluebell · 18/11/2023 23:31

I have named changed.

A dear family member was brutally murdered by Hamas at the rave on 7 October. A young woman he was with somehow did survive and is suffering deep deep trauma from her brutalisation. The rapes were not only evidenced by Hamas filming themselves, but also testimonies by survivors and evidence collected by first responders. (The perpetrators of the attacks have absolutely not all been captured - so the poster who is saying that is not doing so in good faith.)

I can tell you from first hand knowledge that awkward silence from feminist organisations around the brutality suffered by Israeli women is definitely real. I personally have had to let go of a few people because of heartless out of line comments, including - did it even really happen?

I personally was in a feminist group (UK based, with a strong London contingency) who were trying to 'contextualise' the horror on the 7th, 8th of October, even as images were coming out of Shani Louk's broken body, Noa Argamani pleading not to be killed, or this video of nightmares - (if you can stomach the blood between her legs you may also notice that her achilles heel was cut so she couldn't run). I couldn't believe how many vocal feminists were willing to throw these Israeli women under the bus because of how strongly they oppose Israel, or at least because they feel the fight for justice in Palestine is so important that Israeli sisters are inconvenient victims.

I know for a fact that Israelis are feeling an overwhelming trauma. The acts of violence triggered deep inherited fears, and Israelis (and in a sense Jews in general) feel they are alone in the world, in an existential fight for survival (whether this is true of not, I am not arguing, just this is the collective psyche).

I also want to say - despite experiencing gut wrenching personal loss, and having actual skin in the game, I have nothing but heartbreak and resolve for the women of Gaza who are also suffering unthinkable brutality. I cannot process the terror women and children are suffering from right now, and if I could I would reach out and embrace them - our suffering is connected - not in opposition to one another. It's not hard for me to say that because I stand for all women and because suffering like this has expanded my compassion and humanity, not decreased it. I have been lending the small voice I have urging people to find their human compassion in this brutal and horrific nightmare that everyone is not trapped in it.

I can tell a mile off people who are not holding peace and compassion in their hearts. People who think of this as a sick team sport.

In my world it is more common for me to encounter people who can barely bring themselves to mutter a few words for the Israeli rape victims (and there have been a few on this board, you know who you are and please, please don't get your back up, just reflect on this for a moment). I experience this a lot more since I travel in lefty circles.

I also say that anyone who believes that dehumanising or belittling the people in Gaza in order to support Israel equally need to just stop and reflect on this. Anyone who feels that they are harbouring prejudice against Palestinians, or Muslims because of these events - please also reflect on this. We cannot slip into prejudice and hate - if we do there is no way back to hope.

The whole conflict is rooted in sides. There are no sides, there are traumatised women and children (and men) who need to find a way back to peace through imperfect compromise, forgiveness, healing and deep humanity.

Edited

My heart is with yours. Inadequate as my words are I am sorry for your loss and pain, for all the loss and pain.🕊

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 12:09

Something to keep an eye on: Eylon Levy, an Israeli government spokesperson has promised to personally donate £10 to UNRWA for each pro-Palestinian protester who sends a selfie of themselves at a protest march carrying a sign that says 'I condemn Hamas for raping Israeli women and girls'.

He says it could bankrupt him if enough people did it.

One of the first responses is "where is the proof of rape"?

https://x.com/eylonalevy/status/1726177041597465003?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

https://x.com/eylonalevy/status/1726177041597465003?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

EdithStourton · 19/11/2023 12:13

@deepbluebell I am so sorry for what you and your family are going through. Every Jewish person I know has been deeply affected by this.

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 13:43

IcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2023 12:08

Thank you, I've just read several of her recent articles. Chilling.

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thatsthewayitis · 19/11/2023 14:52

@deepbluebell may their memory be a blessing.
I'm seeing reports for a 5 day ceasefire if the hostages are returned. I cannot imagine the trauma of these women and girls because I don't think even the young ones will be spared. Just 😭

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 14:57

'The Washington Post published a report earlier suggesting a deal was imminent that would see dozens of women and children being held hostage freed in exchange for a five-day pause in Israel's assault.'

'Confirming that 31 "very sick babies" had been evacuated - and were receiving "urgent care" at a maternity maternity in Rafah, southern Gaza - he said in a social media post:
Quote Message: Further missions are being planned to urgently transport remaining patients and health staff out of al-Shifa hospital, pending guarantees of safe passage by parties to the conflict."Further missions are being planned to urgently transport remaining patients and health staff out of al-Shifa hospital, pending guarantees of safe passage by parties to the conflict."'

BBC, recent live reporting.

Hoping all are safe and cared for.

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Trulywonderful · 19/11/2023 17:08

Lolapusht · 19/11/2023 09:34

According to @BabaBarrio the Red Cross have checked on each hostage every other day and the UN made sure they were getting the same food as their Hamas captors so I’m sure they’re fine. Well, excluding the what, 4 or 5 who have been found dead this week.

Is there a link to the Red Cross confirming this. 6 days ago they were saying Hamas was not letting them have access or do welfare checks on the hostages. So the only thing they were going on was what Hamas told them. Also Hamas said last week they were still not sure where all the hostages are. Of this has changed I would like to read what has been said. I tried Googling but can't see anything saying the red cross now has gained access and that Hamas now has the location of all the hostages.

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 17:24

I am a bit concerned about a poster coming on here and confidently making 2 specific claims, that all the terrorists were killed 2 days after the attack and that the Red Cross confirmed the hostages were well looked after when neither of these things appear to be true.

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 17:34

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 17:24

I am a bit concerned about a poster coming on here and confidently making 2 specific claims, that all the terrorists were killed 2 days after the attack and that the Red Cross confirmed the hostages were well looked after when neither of these things appear to be true.

Not all posters are in good faith, sadly.

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