Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.

[ArthurbellaScott]

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew/

I skipped parts of this article, specifically the first person account.

The rest of it I think is an important read.

Because you're suggesting 'safe zones' in places similar to / where the October 7th attacks took place. Surely you can't be so incapable of understanding this when it's been explained so many times? There is no reason that 'safe zones' have to be behind the Israeli border and about one billion reasons, including the obvious loss of life that would occur, why this is a bad idea.

Oh bloody hell I fell for a straw man argument.

Not having 'safe zones' (which would be impossible) on Israeli soil does not mean 'no safe zones'. Obviously.

Not engaging any more with people using straw man arguments - it's in bad faith.

So (genuinely, not goadily)

All the threads on what’s happening and you chose to post on here. You chose to repeatedly derail a thread about the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7/10.

.

This one is a well known apologist and denier for Jew hate. She even practices it herself. So this may look not to bad as a post but she would probably deny the rapes even if she saw them happen herself

Israel can deal with its own extremists. It has done before.

Can this present regime deal with its own extremists? It is its own extremists isn’t it?

@Trulywonderful oh my gods , I can't believe people can write such things ...
Do you know the refrain from an old Tom Lehrer satirical song: "And everyone hates the Jews."

Just incase you don't believe me

This is her denying Jewish people where ethically cleansed from the Arab world and also denying the Israelis from the surrounding countries even exsist

@Queucumber after repeatedly saying they are leaving....
@AdamRyan that isn't going to happen for the obvious reasons. Normal civilians did come through the wire. They aren't going to be invited through for another go.

I think elements of this are goady not a genuine seeking of understanding. There are people living in fear on both sides.

@Trulywonderful how can people spin and deny fact..

@Trulywonderful I liked something on Instagram earlier that said
' there is an old Jewish saying: the antisemitic does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence'

As we see time and time again on here and social media. Let alone from Hamas via their properganda

Yep I sometimes don't respond to certain posters or only reply to their posts once or twice. Anything more than that then I am giving some posters exactly what they are after. A Jewish person jumping through hoops to prove themselves or others innocent. It is all just a nasty racist game to some people, the whole conflict.

^But also, this isn't a "believe women" scenario bc no female victims have
offered testimony^

That is ridiculous. Their bodies offered testimony in many cases. Many can’t actually speak as they were killed or are hostages.

Meanwhile there was testimony from witnesses and even some of the perpetrators themselves. Others victims are in psychiatric hospitals I believe and some are said to have committed suicide.

We all saw the young woman being pushed into a vehicle with the back of her trousers covered in blood. We all saw the other naked woman in the back of the pick- up truck being paraded among a berserk crowd. Are these things which we saw randomly supposed to be one offs?

Some people see what they want to see it seems

They just refuse to see anything that doesn't fit nicely into their chosen narrative

NovemberAutumn I am so sorry your special group has had death threats and that your poor son has felt this way at school. That is terrible and abhorrent.

Surely people will start to be more aware of the prevalence of this behaviour against Jewish people and openly push back against it, and against anything similar that may be happening against ordinary Muslims who live here too.

I mentioned the supremacist ideology of Hamas earlier in the thread:

https://youtube.com/shorts/krqpVcp0VPc

I fully accept that Gazans are now traumatised. But that does not negate the state of mind of Israelis, especially those near the Gazan border, following a brutal attack that came without warning, and broke a truce, with captives paraded through the streets afterwards.

The Israeli government has an obligation not to target civilians. That's not the same thing as an obligation not to kill them. What the Gazans are suffering is principally the responsibility of Hamas, who integrate their armed forces into the civilian infrastructure and don't build bomb shelters for civilians. They are happy for the civilians to suffer as it gets world opinion to turn against Israel. And before you misconstrue what I am saying, I despise Netanyahu and many of his acts.

Leading article in the Times today:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4986db8e-c2e4-4b3b-9aed-e5355c7e4403?shareToken=f7684a0d387d8722a9e011dea10f4094

I think there is more than a measure of hyperbole in what you say. Yes, the Netanyahu government has become very right wing, but it is still a democratically elected government with accountability to its people and a free press, not a terrorist organisation.

The way forward for Israel will be to ditch Netanyahu and focus on unity and stability; and that will involve in cracking down on extremist settlers.

That should be Egypt's response - not the country that is actually engaged in the war. You seem to want Israel to take 100% of responsibility for everything.

It's not a straw man
Someone asked me upthread what I'd do. I said I'm not a tactician, I was trying to think of possibilities.
Of course the Israelis don't want to do anything. My point is more if they were serious about protecting civilians they could.
According to nearly every source, there are no safe zones in Gaza. So your answer is also a de facto "Gazans can die as collateral damage."

Happy Hannukah to all who celebrate. I've lit a candle for you.

What is it you don't understand about the nature of war? Countries at war have aduty not to target civilians - but that is not what Israel is doing. It is targeting Hamas and its infrastructure. Hamas has the responsibility for its own people - but instead it sacrifices them as martryrs, and even forbids them from leaving when they have been told evacuate. It knowingly places its war infrastructure in residential streets, in schools, under hospitals. This is the war crime; to add to the atrocties that were committed on October 7th - all of which were genuinely genocidal in intent, and evil in practice

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-mousa-abu-marzouk-tunnels-gaza-protect-fighters-%20not-civilians

Another speech calling for the blood of Martyrs:

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-gaza-bombing-new-holocaust-need-blood-women-children-elderly-awakens-spirit-resolve

This is unfair. Do you not think the Gazans are also now traumatised? I understand Jews are traumatised, but the Israeli Government have an obligation not to kill civilians and no amount of trauma makes that untrue

I don't think it is unfair at all. Your entire behaviour on this thread shows you don't know (or care) how traumatised people are. There has been post after heart breaking post where people pore out their pain and distress and that of their loved ones and you ignore all this and bull doze your way through, treating this thread like your personal political discussion thread rather than the support thread others need it as.

There are plenty of other threads that would be more suited to you, or you could start your own, but instead you choose one about rape and sexual abuse where women want to support women.

So no, I don't think it is at all unfair to say you don't realise how traumatised people are, women are. I think your actions here have demonstrated it.