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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.

1000 replies

ArthurbellaScott · 18/11/2023 09:31

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew/

I skipped parts of this article, specifically the first person account.

The rest of it I think is an important read.

MeToo unless you're a Jew

Feminist groups are whitewashing Hamas's crimes

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew

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Thread gallery
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ArthurbellaScott · 26/11/2023 14:51

Leo Varadkar:

'This is a day of enormous joy and relief for Emily Hand and her family. An innocent child who was lost has now been found and returned, and we breathe a massive sigh of relief. Our prayers have been answered.'

Lost?

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1728535065242612184

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1728535065242612184

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NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 26/11/2023 14:55

Without even touching a thesaurus, I can suggest abducted, kidnapped, or taken prisoner.

I am shocked by Leo Varadkar's euphemism here.

pickledandpuzzled · 26/11/2023 15:43

I can imagine using that language, as a parent. There are words I hate to hear and to use because they apply to me.

It’s very much their experience, they lost her - believed her dead- and now she’s been returned to them.

I wouldn’t be ready to use brutal language about my little girl. Especially as they won’t yet know exactly what she suffered.

pickledandpuzzled · 26/11/2023 15:47

I’m sorry for your loss..

That VAWAG statement from the UN read strangely to me. Was it trying to condemn VAWAG, while not being explicit about the perpetrators or culture? I don’t want to reread it but it sounded off, somehow.

ArthurbellaScott · 26/11/2023 15:56

'kidnapped' isn't especially brutal, it's the blunt fact.

As well as the fact she wasn't 'found', she was released. It's removing all agency from the people who kidnapped and subsequently released her; it's presenting the crime of taking a child as if it's an unfortunate accident.

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pickledandpuzzled · 26/11/2023 16:11

I understand your criticism.
I’m wondering whether the brutal fact that an outside agency murdered, tortured and then kidnapped your child… It makes you a terrible victim, powerless in hostile hands.

It’s really challenging to stare that in the face.

Sometimes we hide from that using language that excludes the aggressor in order to reframe the trauma in a way we can process. They can give thanks that their children were lost and now are found without having to confront that loss of agency.

I mean, it’s not like he doesn’t know the truth and fear even more. He’s avoiding confronting it right now in order to be able to rejoice.

Otherwise I’d be eaten with rage and go mad max. I would be out there clawing people to pieces and that’s not what’s needed right now. He needs to focus on her, and her presence now. He’s made the world small enough to focus safely on.

You aren’t wrong- but it’s ok for him to speak how he wants.

ArthurbellaScott · 26/11/2023 16:14

Um. That's the Taoiseach of Ireland, Leo Varadkar tweeting?

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Imnobody4 · 26/11/2023 16:21

I despair of the UN. They're not demanding access to the hostages, to check on their condition and health. Does anyone really expect they will actually release rape victims so they can testify to the ICC.

MmedeGouge · 26/11/2023 16:31

IcakethereforeIam · 18/11/2023 10:42

I'm happy(?) to call hamas terrorists. Israel is not innocent and their actions at the moment make me despair for the plight of the civilian people of Gaza caught up in it. But I lay a good chunk of the blame for this at the feet of hamas. They knew, in fact I'd say they counted on this resulting in dead Gazans. But they did it anyway. Perhaps they hope/hoped the backlash from Israel would draw in Iran? Or maybe they're happy with the useful idiots across the world and their demonstrations. It must be obvious to hamas that, without escalation, they cannot win a war against Israel so their only purpose is terror and division.

Before 7th October I'd have said I supported the Palestinians and condemned the actions of Israel; the settler movement, the current land grabs, and so on. I still wish for peace for both sides but I have more sympathy now for the walls and the checkpoints.

I wish hamas had tried to build a better society with all the aid money. Been better than Israel, earned the world's support from being better. Strong and dignified not murderous monsters.

I don't care who was there first, this is the situation now. Although people of European descent in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and anywhere else, except Europe, calling anyone else a coloniser...?

My thoughts exactly. Very eloquently expressed.

Decemberdaily · 26/11/2023 16:31

pickledandpuzzled · 26/11/2023 16:11

I understand your criticism.
I’m wondering whether the brutal fact that an outside agency murdered, tortured and then kidnapped your child… It makes you a terrible victim, powerless in hostile hands.

It’s really challenging to stare that in the face.

Sometimes we hide from that using language that excludes the aggressor in order to reframe the trauma in a way we can process. They can give thanks that their children were lost and now are found without having to confront that loss of agency.

I mean, it’s not like he doesn’t know the truth and fear even more. He’s avoiding confronting it right now in order to be able to rejoice.

Otherwise I’d be eaten with rage and go mad max. I would be out there clawing people to pieces and that’s not what’s needed right now. He needs to focus on her, and her presence now. He’s made the world small enough to focus safely on.

You aren’t wrong- but it’s ok for him to speak how he wants.

@pickledandpuzzled it’s not the father Thomas hand who tweeted though, it’s the Taoiseach of Ireland (where Thomas is from).

pickledandpuzzled · 26/11/2023 17:00

😬😳😳

I take it all back! Goodness knows why I thought it was her dad- perhaps the ‘our prayers’. I’m so sorry, no wonder you’re outraged- that’s really mealy-mouthed!

IcakethereforeIam · 26/11/2023 17:25

No words minced here. Unsurprisingly Israel seems to have run out of fucks

Israel’s government spokesman Eyon Levy said: “Emily Hand wasn’t ‘lost’. She was brutally abducted by the death squads that massacred her neighbours. She wasn’t ‘found’. Hamas knew where she was all along and cynically held her as a hostage. And Hamas didn’t answer your prayers. It answered Israel’s military pressure.”

thatsthewayitis · 26/11/2023 17:43

MmedeGouge · 26/11/2023 16:31

My thoughts exactly. Very eloquently expressed.

I'm Askenazi, had my DNA done I'm part Natufian (neolithic Levant) and part Baltic. I'm as indigenous as you get. And frankly I'd rejoice to see a rich Singapore- like Palestine next to Israel.

ArthurbellaScott · 26/11/2023 18:21

IcakethereforeIam · 26/11/2023 17:25

No words minced here. Unsurprisingly Israel seems to have run out of fucks

Israel’s government spokesman Eyon Levy said: “Emily Hand wasn’t ‘lost’. She was brutally abducted by the death squads that massacred her neighbours. She wasn’t ‘found’. Hamas knew where she was all along and cynically held her as a hostage. And Hamas didn’t answer your prayers. It answered Israel’s military pressure.”

Robust. Is Emily Hand an Irish citizen? Is this how the Taioseach would deal with kidnapped citizens? Prayer?

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pronounsbundlebundle · 26/11/2023 18:28

IcakethereforeIam · 26/11/2023 17:25

No words minced here. Unsurprisingly Israel seems to have run out of fucks

Israel’s government spokesman Eyon Levy said: “Emily Hand wasn’t ‘lost’. She was brutally abducted by the death squads that massacred her neighbours. She wasn’t ‘found’. Hamas knew where she was all along and cynically held her as a hostage. And Hamas didn’t answer your prayers. It answered Israel’s military pressure.”

Good for Israel. How dare Varadkar write that crap. If I was a family member it would simply add hurt to the already overwhelming pain and suffering - how dare he do that to that family. Talk about kicking one of your own citizens when they're down.

It's basically lies. He's lying, she wasn't 'lost' and she's not 'found'. Liar. Trying to rewrite history to avoid accountability for a terrorist organisation.

pronounsbundlebundle · 26/11/2023 18:30

Oh good there's a context note now.... 'Readers added context they thought people might want to know
Emily Hand was kidnapped by Hamas Terrorists on October the 7th. The use of the term lost is inappropriate and fails to highlight that she was released as part of a hostage deal. '

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pronounsbundlebundle · 26/11/2023 18:39

I see the Irish Government are doubling down and are 'surprised' at how their deliberate minimisation of terrorist actions have been taken and feigning ignorance about why their ambassador to Israel has been summoned to discuss this.

That makes me even more cross - only an apology would suffice not an 'oh everyone knew what we meant' - yes we did and that's why we're pissed off and think Varadkar should apologise. FFS.

etmoiandme · 26/11/2023 18:53

And even worse that it came hot off the heals of the 'thank fuck Jews don't have influence in Ireland' (paraphrasing) article. He must have known about this.

Trulywonderful · 26/11/2023 19:09

One sign from the march today

Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.
QuakerlyDoings · 26/11/2023 21:38

Just wanted to say I am appalled personally at the silence of the feminist oganisations in regards to the abuse, rape and murder of women that happened on October the 7th.

I have nothing to add on the rights/wrongs of any of the violent individuals in states, making decisions with little empathy.

I am a Quaker and was planning to go as an Ecumenical Accompanier to Gaza or the West Bank this year, but managed to land a job first. (It was a shock, I'd been looking for a while and being over 50 thought I was on the shelf).

I was brought up in the ME and I've done the work on myself in decolonising my racist views, maybe not completely but I am on that journey.

I am so sorry that there are people on this thread that have been directly affected who have had to deal with whataboutary. People it seems cannot help themselves.

I have nothing but empathy for everyone caught up in this appalling situation. As Ghandi said - an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Ain't that the truth. I acknowledge my privilege sitting here on the other side of the world in my comfortable sitting room, one that I may not enjoy for much longer as I've been arrested for "Locking on" outside an arms fair in pursuit of peace.

There's a whole lot of work that can be done generally by us to pursue peace, if we really care enough about the subject.

I care about peace. We need peace, but I also care about women and girls and this world feels really unsafe for women and girls and I am sad and ashamed that organisations that I have given money to have remained silent. It's wrong and I agree with the OP.

PaterPower · 27/11/2023 07:21

I see the Irish Government are doubling down and are 'surprised' at how their deliberate minimisation of terrorist actions have been taken

Well they had plenty of practice at that during the “troubles,” so perhaps they felt it would be a bit hypocritical to criticise Hamas now.

deepbluebell · 27/11/2023 16:54

I cannot bring myself to read this but here us a report:

www.phr.org.il/en/gender-based-violence-eng/

ArthurbellaScott · 27/11/2023 17:28

thank you, deepbluebell.

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thatsthewayitis · 27/11/2023 19:33

Reading it now thank you @deepbluebell

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