Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.

[ArthurbellaScott]

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew/

I skipped parts of this article, specifically the first person account.

The rest of it I think is an important read.

I read that 50 Israeli hostages may be released in exchange for a short cease fire. I hope it's children and the women who've been raped and sexually abused so they can get treatment for their trauma...

Its just been announced that the hostage deal has been agreed with apparently angry scenes in the street between the Ultra Right Wing and (some?) of the Hostage Families.

I've put a link to Haaretz which (I think) is a liberal left paper and it looks like they will be doing updates. Its worth looking at some of their other articles if you have time.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-21/ty-article-live/hamas-haniyeh-we-are-close-to-truce-netanyahu-freeing-hostages-is-sacred-mission/0000018b-f003-d36e-a3cb-f05725160000

Hopefully by tomorrow morning there will be positive confirmation of what is going to happen.

But (and I may not describe this accurately) if part of the deal is to release Palestinian prisoners sentence for violence or murder, the families of those harmed can ask a Court to block their release.

I just read in The Times of Israel that the Israeli hostages will be women with their children and other women and the Palestinians will be underage girls and women who weren't imprisoned for murder
https://www.timesofisrael.com/

A relief that women, children and young people are being released first in this agreement.

It is awful that Israel has underage prisoners to exchange for hostages.

Yes. Something to be grateful for today.

Another organisation worth supporting:

togetherforhumanity.co.uk/

Apparently Hamas says 150 Palestinian women and teenagers will be released from Israeli jails under the deal

Whereas the list shared by Israel's justice ministry of 300 Palestinian detainees who could be released.
Most are aged 17 or 18, with the overall age range 14-59. The majority of the detainees - 274 of 300 - are male.

Also listed are the offences of the detainees. They include attempted murder, throwing a bomb, creating an explosive or incendiary object, throwing stones, contact with a hostile organisation, grievous bodily harm and arson on nationalist grounds.

So Hamas are choosing the woman and children from the list of 300 that Israel are ok about releasing

They will obviously pick the women and probably youngest teenagers because that suits the narrative etc. However still these teenage boys have all likely to have been radicalised from birth so a product of that.

The women however I don't see as any different from male prisoners. If women can be in the IDF or Hamas why does everyone keep talking about women like they are different from men. Children and the elderly I get are more vulnerable but women ( other than they are more likely to experience sex crimes) are no different from men in this conflict.

Thanks. I hope we see a lot more of this.

'We put out an appeal to the public to join us for a sombre moment of reflection and togetherness — without flags or placards'

.

Yes that would be good and very much needed

Some of those women and girls taken hostage might need abortions, or help if they choose to keep the babies.

I also hope that they release injured men. There is one young man at Supernova whose forearm was blown off by a Hamas grenade; he was then taken captive.

An article in Spiked about the silence, excuses and whataboutery

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/11/21/why-cant-intersectional-feminists-condemn-hamass-misogyny/

The hyperlink on the need for a male guardian goes to an article in the Guardian from 2021 on how hamas are rolling back women's rights.

Au contraire. The US wants a destabilised Middle East, which will lead to a destablised Europe (influx of refugees and economic migrants) as this will favour the US's aims - aims for what, one legitimately asks, for the outcome of the policy is disaster.

This is Russia and China's strategy. We're in another Cold War if you hadn't noticed. The Middle East swivel to Russia which is a threat to the West.

Just a couple of points.

Not all those being released by Israel will have been found guilty of anything. Many are "detained".

And yes it is possible to be cynical about why women are being released but those were the negotions for a first step on both sides. Women and children.

Also, as I said up thread, if any men held by Israel were to be released and had been convicted of violence, they familes or those hurt or killed have the right to challenge in court them being released.

Lets stick with the facts as and when they are released.

Speculation in western media are as much prompted by generating readers than any attempt to reflect the actual situation.

And meant to add yesterday, if anybody has seen videos on line showing Israeli women being abused, please complain to the SM platform, eg X, facebook, etc., that these women's privacy is being invaded. Not only should we show them that respect but horrible as it is, we all know that there are men who pay for torture porn. This is giving it them for free.

I agree about the Palestinian underage prisoners, that's awful. I hope they went to school and had some kind of therapy. A life of violence is no life

The Haaretz link I posted yesterday is no longer being updated.

This is the link for updates for today https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-22/ty-article-live/israeli-cabinet-okays-deal-for-release-of-50-hostages-held-by-hamas-temporary-cease-fire/0000018b-f52c-d117-abcf-f7ef5d450000

I notice we are in another Cold War. But US actions in the Middle East over the last twenty years have destabilised it severely. If they didn't intend that then they are dangerous idiots. If they intended it then they are simply dangerous.

@Trulywonderful

I don’t know where you got your information from but the list published by Israel doesn’t have any adult men on it at all. In addition, they didn’t say that any male boys were charged with attempted murder, throwing a bomb, creating an explosive or incendiary object, contact with a hostile organisation, grievous bodily harm and arson on nationalist grounds.

Newsweek reported:
On Wednesday Israel's Justice Ministry published on its website a list of 300 Palestinian prisoners "slated for release," according to a translation. This publication is to give members of the public a chance to appeal against the release of specific prisoners, The Times of Israel reported.
The paper noted that the vast majority of the prisoners scheduled for possible release—287— are males aged 18 and under, detained for rioting and rock-throwing in the West Bank or East Jerusalem. The other 13 prisoners are adult women, who were mostly convicted of attempted stabbings.
https://www.newsweek.com/palestinian-prisoners-released-full-list-israel-1845986

Yes that is a relief to me as well. I hope it all goes smoothly. Red Cross is ready to start bringing the hostages out of Gaza.

So was a Palestinian prisoner release the end goal all along?

https://www.gov.il/he/Departments/DynamicCollectors/is-db?skip=280

This is the list - I can get the English translation, not sure if it works in this link. Properly need to open in Google.
However there are many boys arrested in connection with arson, carrying weapons and bombs etc, not just stone throwing eg.

• Throwing a bomb or an incendiary, violating a legal order, trespassing, violations of the Law of Entry into Israel, harming animals, other thefts

I think it was an expectation of Hamas as an objective was clearly to take hostages and they had done the hostage for prisoners swap before with Israel. You don’t purposely take hostages without wanting something in return. it’s a common tactic of terrorists and a war crime, just being very clear I am not minimising or condoning it. A hostage is also nothing like a detainee or prisoner.

I don’t know what their end goal was, but I know they did intend to take hostages. Remember Yasmin Porat the survivor of the Nova festival who managed to get to Kibbutz Be’eri only to be captured by Hamas there. Her testimony was that Hamas had a Hebrew speaker who said to stay calm, they weren’t going to die or be harmed, they were going to be hostages. Her full account was broadcast on Israeli radio, you can find it here. Ignore the sensationalist click bait title in the link.
https://mmnews.tv/idf-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-exposes-israeli-propaganda/

I don't think so. Purely conjecture but I think it was to get the world - the West and their neighbours in the region - to turn on Israel and Jews. Hamas probably think they've played a blinder because the bloodthirsty Netanyahu walked right into their trap, as they knew he would. What they probably didn't bank on was just how extensive the cost would be in human lives. But they have no respect for human life, including their own, so it's worked out rather well for Hamas. Although I suppose that doesn't explain the extent of their barbaric behaviour on 7/10 and how that would have looked to the rest of the world.