Caster Semenya on BBC1 now

[Davros]

I had to turn off

If, for example, a trans woman was permitted to perform as a female athlete I would agree this should not be permitted.

As for those suggesting I should educate myself, the patronising tone is what I would expect from a person with those views and who knows nothing of my education.

She has not fathered children don’t be so ridiculous. She has no penis for starters. I am aware that semen is produced by testes!

@MNHQ please remove this hate speech thread it’s truly sickening.

You aren’t demonstrating that you have ANY for the South African girls that Semenya has displaced from their national team over the 2 last decades.

You know, the actual FEMALE athletes, the old fashioned kind that weren’t born with testicles.

Why doesn’t Semenya “train harder” and race other males if it’s so easy?

You’ve not read the court documents then eh?

Nice try but it won’t work, this thread with all the links to the fact that Caster is male will stand

Yes, that's how female sport works - it discriminates against males to allow a fair chance for female athletes.

Good opportunity to post these again to show the difference between men & women

I don’t accept that males belong in female sports categories.

Discrimination in sporting category terms simply means being able to discern one thing (a man) from another (a woman), or a junior athlete from a senior athlete, or an able bodied athlete from a Paralympian.

I don't recognise the picture of MN you are painting.

Apart from that - is your point that you think that CS is a biological woman and you find the current discussion stating CS is a man distressing and discriminatory / phobic / in the realms of hate speech?

Genuinely trying to follow your thought process as I don't get the hate and phobia thing at all. I know what those words mean (once a stranger crossed the street to tell me how much they hate people like me in great detail; I also have phobias, as in an irrational fear of harmless things that affects my everyday life). I am just confused by your posts and all the !!! aren't helping.

All of the patronising and discrimination does not make me any less sure of my belief that this is hate speech and should not be allowed on a public forum.

I am talking about discrimination as a whole in society not just in sporting categories, but to use your language, you knew that eh?

Since Semenya took a case to CAS, Semenya’s chromosomes are a matter of public record.

Discussing facts is not “phobic”.

What’s next, Ladiesssss, you gonna argue that someone who just wants to use a wheelchair but isn’t actually disabled should be allowedcompete in the paralympics?

Be a bit mean to say no, wouldn’t it? Bit unfair to make them be tested by a sports doctor, why not just believe them when they say they belong in that category?

Fill yer boots.

Is calling a male person a male person hate speech? How can we adequately describe the categories of male and female if we can’t call males male?

Then report all the posts you think fail the standard you personally have set and let the mods decide. Otherwise can I suggest that you stop making unfounded accusations.

In the post you quoted there was one ! so not sure what that means.

I believe CS is a woman. She clearly is different but that’s ok, most of us are in one way or another.

the hate speech and phobia really doesn’t need pointing out to you, it’s here clear as day.

Here’s a medium post where some chap helpfully points out all the important bits in the Sport Arbitration court docs:

https://matthewbrealey.medium.com/caster-semenya-male-or-female-c5502364d564

hilarious in its irony!

Set, but not defined.

Your belief is not the standard that the Court for Arbitration of Sport applied, thankfully.

If, for example, a trans woman was permitted to perform as a female athlete I would agree this should not be permitted.

Why not? What's the difference between them and Semenya? They're both males who make claims to be female. Is it just that you genuinely don't believe Semenya is male?

Okay, ignoring the trans - which I guess is later personal cross-sex claims - what about some other male person who had been wrongly identified as female? Should any male identified as female at birth be allowed to compete? Does that identification have to be accidental, or would deliberate falsification be permitted? Do they have to have a DSD?

She has not fathered children don’t be so ridiculous. She has no penis for starters. I am aware that semen is produced by testes!

We don't know whether Semenya fathered the children. Lots of people keep repeating that factoid, without evidence. Annoyingly. Stop it, people.

But it's true that a large proportion of individuals with Semenya's condition can father children with the aid of artificial insemination. Semenya may have an underdeveloped penis, but has testes. So there's nothing ridiculous about the possibility of having fathered children. Many 5-ARD individuals have. So people speculated reasonably that Semenya may have done - quite possible, verging on likely - and this transformed into something we knew for a fact, which we don't.

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_-redacted-_Semenya_ASA_IAAF.pdf

this might help, lots of information from people who do have knowledge of Caster Semanyas genetics. Sorry it’s 163 pages long, but I think you might find it illuminating.

Are you trying to imply that the court documents regarding Semenya’s sex contain ‘unfounded’ accusations?

So are you saying that if you live as a woman, and identify as a women then you can compete in female sports?

Though in any case it doesn't seem that CS really does either - great manspreading picture above, and the beach picture in trunks. It's quite clear to most of us that CS is a man.