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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 7

1000 replies

Kucinghitam · 05/11/2023 18:13

Continuation of Thread 6.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 6 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4807817-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-5? Thread 5]]. There is so much excel...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4861150-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-6?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
164
IcakethereforeIam · 11/04/2024 00:42

Could Hunt be stripped of her peerage?

HottestEverRecordedTemperature · 11/04/2024 07:14

Winterborne74 · 10/04/2024 13:09

Yet another really powerful piece from Victoria Smith - on the emptiness and hypocrisy of the "be kind" brigade

Killing with kindness | Victoria Smith | The Critic Magazine

That was a good article.

I have said before (and possibly on this thread) when I was a girl the onset of puberty horrified me and deeply traumatised me. I grew large breasts and a large bum and all of a sudden I did not fit in the same sized space i always had.

Added to this was that the increase in creepy behaviour from men the touching, leering, the creepy uncle who would stick his tongue down my throat and squeeze my arse from the age of 11. My mother (nor father) would not get me a bra when i was growing never mind a sports bra and she would snigger at me when I would run around playing and my father would cover his face like I was disgusting and say 'For god's sake, don't run!'. I hated my body. I developed bulimia pretty bloody quickly and I'm 50 now and only stopped the vomiting a few years ago. My favourite hobbies of cross country running were gone. I loved horse riding and used to use a horse exercise bandage to strap my chest down - all the time- because I wanted to minimise being a female as much as I could. I hid in super baggy clothes to try and hide my body. I despised my body (still do) and I would punish it through excessive exercise regimes or by bingeing and purging.

I did not feel myself. All of a sudden I was an object - to be looked at or desired or rejected. It had nothing to do with me and was about my boobs and my arse. I lose any sense of agency. *

If I had been given the option of chopping off my breasts and taking hormones to suppress all of that I would have taken it in a heartbeat. One of my female friends was 6 foot tall at about 11 / 12 years and she was given some sort of drug to stop her growing. I recall being so jealous she could just take a drug to 'fix' her problem. Now thinking back that horrifies me- being tall is not a problem to be fixed in the regular scheme of things. Neither is being female.

*regards riding horses. There was a trope going around (maybe still) that teenage girls like riding because it is a quasi sexual thing. I don't think that is true. I think it is because by being on the back of a horse you have a different relationship with your own body. You can express your power, your sense of complete and utter physical freedom.

mach2 · 11/04/2024 10:31

<Stunned silence>

mach2 · 12/04/2024 06:36

Random giggle

Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 14:51

And the German Parliament votes yes to Self ID, and there will be “protections” against “outing”, which to me sounds as if stating someone’s sex will not be permitted if that person has applied to change their recorded sex.

StephanieSuperpowers · 12/04/2024 14:57

It's one step forward, three steps back.

Snowypeaks · 12/04/2024 15:08

This is terrible.

Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 15:45

€10,000 fines for pointing out that a man is a man. Beyond belief, and yet of course not at all.

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2024 16:43

https://twitter.com/UnleashedComedy/status/1778723477161189387?t=wD4WuSScOA6K-o73O7cR5Q&s=19

"TONIGHT at 7.30pm @GussieGrips video from the Edinburgh Hate Crime Special goes live."

By all accounts she was very funny!

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 7
Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2024 16:44

Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 14:51

And the German Parliament votes yes to Self ID, and there will be “protections” against “outing”, which to me sounds as if stating someone’s sex will not be permitted if that person has applied to change their recorded sex.

Oh FFS it's one step forwards two steps back isn't it!

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2024 16:44

StephanieSuperpowers · 12/04/2024 14:57

It's one step forward, three steps back.

I should have read all the posts first!

Kucinghitam · 12/04/2024 16:55

Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 15:45

€10,000 fines for pointing out that a man is a man. Beyond belief, and yet of course not at all.

The Right Side of History strikes again. Got to say, it's almost* admirable, their utter shamelessness.

*not admirable at all

OP posts:
Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 20:24

Posting this, not because it’s anything new or revelatory, but because I found it moving and upsetting that it needs to be said, and utterly incomprehensible that anyone could think this position bigoted.

https://x.com/womenarereals/status/1778801664675488227?s=61&t=vrfh73NvYySozkuIkLckQw

https://x.com/womenarereals/status/1778801664675488227?s=61&t=vrfh73NvYySozkuIkLckQw

SinnerBoy · 12/04/2024 20:52

Winterborne74 · Today 20:24

Posting this, not because it’s anything new or revelatory, but because I found it moving and upsetting that it needs to be said, and utterly incomprehensible that anyone could think this position bigoted.

...girls are bearing the brunt of this.

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2024 20:56

Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 20:24

Posting this, not because it’s anything new or revelatory, but because I found it moving and upsetting that it needs to be said, and utterly incomprehensible that anyone could think this position bigoted.

https://x.com/womenarereals/status/1778801664675488227?s=61&t=vrfh73NvYySozkuIkLckQw

It is incomprehensible that so many people, especially those with power over children are falling for this crap! I feel so sorry for the children and so bloody angry with the grown ups!

Winterborne74 · 12/04/2024 21:23

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2024 16:43

https://twitter.com/UnleashedComedy/status/1778723477161189387?t=wD4WuSScOA6K-o73O7cR5Q&s=19

"TONIGHT at 7.30pm @GussieGrips video from the Edinburgh Hate Crime Special goes live."

By all accounts she was very funny!

Going to find this now!

Winterborne74 · 13/04/2024 10:53

I’ve read this and just tripped over my jaw:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-tried-to-silence-warnings-of-weak-evidence-for-trans-healthcare-n299v00c3

The sheer shamelessness of it. I read The End of the World is flat last year, and to be honest thought he’d overegged it - but not a bit of it.

“Hunt said her only regret was trusting the “experts”, such as Dr Polly Carmichael, the former director of the Gender Identity Development Service (Gids). “I think there was a responsibility on the NHS, schools and social services.“

Er where were schools and the NHS getting their information from, Ruth?

And

”She denied that she had ever supported “no debate”, adding: “I’m absolutely someone who has always been working in the middle ground, trying to build consensus.”
Hunt’s critics may contrast that position with her response in October 2018 to a petition asking Stonewall to acknowledge there was a conflict around transgender rights and sex-based women’s rights. She wrote: “We do not and will not acknowledge this. Doing so would imply that we do not believe that trans people deserve the same rights as others. We will always debate issues that enable us to further equality but what we will not do is debate trans people’s right to exist.”

and

In an opinion piece for the Independent in November 2017, she branded people raising concerns about the rise in young lesbians believing that they were born in the wrong body, “as anti-trans campaigners” deploying a “cynical tactic” amid a “public bout of transphobia”. She wrote: “It feels to me that the old homophobic attitudes have simply morphed into new transphobic ones. The same hatred is behind all of it.”
She added: “They claim that the identities of young, butch lesbians are being erased and that instead of being allowed to feel confident in their sexual orientation and as themselves, they are being pushed into believing they are trans men.
“But the hard facts simply aren’t there to back any of this up. Talking to a specialist is not the same as transitioning. Very few young people who access support go on to transition. This is what we would expect: that’s what much successful gender treatment looks like.”
Today Hunt says that, as a lesbian herself, “I’ve always been deeply concerned about the internalised homophobia that is going on for young women that means they think they can’t be a dyke, and they’ve got to be a boy.”
She said: “I had this kind of fantasy that little baby lesbians could go [to a clinic] and say, ‘I want to wear a suit so I want to be a boy’ [and be told], ‘no, you’re a lesbian who wears a suit’.”

Boiledbeetle · 13/04/2024 11:06

I'm amazed at how she seems to have forgotten the internet exists and her previous position and words are still available for anyone who cares to look.

It's stunning and stupid!

Snowypeaks · 13/04/2024 11:58

I really want some TV company to cotton onto the idea that this - all of it - is material for a dozen documentary series. At least.

Snowypeaks · 13/04/2024 12:02

Boiledbeetle · 13/04/2024 11:06

I'm amazed at how she seems to have forgotten the internet exists and her previous position and words are still available for anyone who cares to look.

It's stunning and stupid!

One of the things that Graham Linehan said that really stuck in my mind is this:

that the Left/progressives howled with rage at Trump with his continual and easily disprovable lies, his doubling down on nonsensical statements, his refusal to accept any blame or admit any wrongdoing and then they (progressives) said - yup, that's what we're going to do.

KellieJaysLapdog · 13/04/2024 13:24

Ruth Hunt chucking Polly Carmichael under the bus was not on my predictions list - I thought it would be the other way around!

But I suppose a sort of ‘cut throat’ defence was predictable with everyone pointing fingers at everyone else.

KellieJaysLapdog · 13/04/2024 13:27

Snowypeaks · 13/04/2024 12:02

One of the things that Graham Linehan said that really stuck in my mind is this:

that the Left/progressives howled with rage at Trump with his continual and easily disprovable lies, his doubling down on nonsensical statements, his refusal to accept any blame or admit any wrongdoing and then they (progressives) said - yup, that's what we're going to do.

Yes, and the Right have picked up ‘cancelling’ techniques from the Left and are running with it!

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