Suella Braverman is wrong to tell the police to describe transgender rapists as men.

[theilltemperedclavecinist]

First, calling a trans woman a man is misgendering, which is transphobic even if unintentionally.

Secondly, it is not accurate and precise enough. A trans woman is not a man, but she is not just any woman, either. Accuracy and precision are important for good record keeping, for research purposes, and for correctly informing the public.

Thus, a transgender rapist should be recorded as such in police and cps records, and should be referred to in press releases as per Stonewall guidelines (transgender woman, then trans woman for subsequent mentions).

If there is any doubt, I suggest a default of assuming a suspect is trans, to avoid giving offence. Stonewall guidelines make it clear that trans is an umbrella covering many things, including men who only very occasionally cross-dress, for whatever purpose.

It would help if all press releases included an explainer box about what a trans woman is, given the surprising number of people who don't seem to know.

This approach may make the use of 'cisgender' (eg for other suspects) unavoidable, which I know some will dislike. But avoiding ambiguity about what is really happening seems more of a priority at the moment.

Re rape - if a person penetrates someone without their consent with an object, would that not also be rape?

What is that classified as if the object could be anything from a dildo to a knife to a broom handle. Cos I'm thinking I'd feel pretty raped if that happened to me.

Have a link.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2009/9/contents

Scotland, eh?

What is this mangled language

I see your point OP but

a) the TRA lobby aren’t happy with TW are TW. They want full TWAW. That’s partly why so many previously “be kind” people got peaked and went GC.

b) there isn’t a TW category in crime statistics, they are recorded as women’s crimes or men’s crimes. So even if newspaper headlines can say a TW committed this rape with her penis (and everyone silently knows it was a man who raped) there is still the issue of where it is recorded statistically.

Women don't have penises. It's quite simple.

A trans woman is a man. It should be recorded as such. If they want to present as a trans woman that can be recorded as well. This is still a crime a man has committed.

I don't need cis in front of my gender thank you. It was fine before.

The problem is that bad faith actors use 'woman' to alternately include/exclude TW without saying which, thus bamboozling the public, plus using the 'wrong' language gets you deplatformed for bigotry. My cunning plan, which is not going at all well, is to use their language to tell our truth.

I would add that I don't think the public are stupid, just that they can't easily follow conversations about rights and legislation because TRAs keep the language deliberately obscure.

'Stonewall guidelines'

lol

all what SirSam said, with knobs on

Transwomen are men and I don't want to read references to 'her penis' ever.

I see what you did there!

thanks Chersfrozenface

I hope you're right. But this seems to have been going on for an awfully long time now. Do you think Labour might yet give Stonewall what they want?

I know TWs and be-kinders and they genuinely believe with all their hearts: its sinister.

It's funny. When I was new I lurked, read, etc. Then I gave responses to threads other people started. I didn't tell a forum I was new to, how I thought things should be.

In response to your OP, I disagree largely with the sentiment of it. I think transwomen (men) who sexually assault women should be described as men, recorded as men, and treated as men. I also think there should be data collection to record those men who claim to identify as women, so that the disproportionate level of 'transsexual' sexually motivated violence is made very transparent.

You're just writing this to be goady, yes? You're saying

First, calling a trans woman a man is misgendering, which is transphobic even if unintentionally.
How can it be transphobic if it's unintentional? Besides which, are we supposed to care about rapists' feelings? Because I sure as hell don't.

Then,
If there is any doubt, I suggest a default of assuming a suspect is trans, to avoid giving offence. Stonewall guidelines make it clear that trans is an umbrella covering many things, including men who only very occasionally cross-dress, for whatever purpose.
What is 'doubt' here? You want to assume all rapists are transgender, until it's proven otherwise? Including ones who are dressed as normal men (they might have been cross-dressing yesterday, after all, but not today?)

Surely no one is that batshit.

😂😂😂

It would help if all press releases included an explainer box about what a trans woman is, given the surprising number of people who don't seem to know

You get some who go through surgery and hormones etc who could appear as a woman and then others who do nothing. So no wonder people don’t know. And then you get into the circular logic of a woman being someone who identifies as a woman without being able to explain what they identify as.

They need to be recorded as male and transgender. That will allow proper statistics to be gathered.

🍿

"Why does anyone care about giving offence in this situation? Why should anyone be compelled to lie about facts in order to keep a sex criminal happy?"
^
💯^

You are correct, in part. A transwoman is not a man but is a male.

Suella and everyone else in confused should be accurate in describing males who identify as 'trans' as transwomen if those males are living in a way that expresses THEIR perception of what a woman is. For some of these males it's an overtly sexualised, heavily made up, sex class stereotyped version and for others it's a way of feeling calm and relaxed by dressing in whatever they like. This type of dressing didn't used to involve dysphoria but were 'cross dressing/transvestite' intact males.

Anyone who rapes must be recorded as a man/male first and foremost as the crime requires a penis. I think it could also be useful to have data on crimes committed by trans identifying men/males and women/females (and we need absolute clarity about 'man' and 'woman' too).