Suella Braverman is wrong to tell the police to describe transgender rapists as men.

[theilltemperedclavecinist]

First, calling a trans woman a man is misgendering, which is transphobic even if unintentionally.

Secondly, it is not accurate and precise enough. A trans woman is not a man, but she is not just any woman, either. Accuracy and precision are important for good record keeping, for research purposes, and for correctly informing the public.

Thus, a transgender rapist should be recorded as such in police and cps records, and should be referred to in press releases as per Stonewall guidelines (transgender woman, then trans woman for subsequent mentions).

If there is any doubt, I suggest a default of assuming a suspect is trans, to avoid giving offence. Stonewall guidelines make it clear that trans is an umbrella covering many things, including men who only very occasionally cross-dress, for whatever purpose.

It would help if all press releases included an explainer box about what a trans woman is, given the surprising number of people who don't seem to know.

This approach may make the use of 'cisgender' (eg for other suspects) unavoidable, which I know some will dislike. But avoiding ambiguity about what is really happening seems more of a priority at the moment.

We know Transwomen are men, the assumption that we are stupid and need it explained to us is highly offensive.

Unfortunately it's a (deliberately?) misleading word, there are many people who don't know which way round it is for TW and TM. Quite a lot logically think transwoman means a trans female.

That reminds me of the passports issue. How on earth are border guards supposed to cope without all the information?

First, calling a trans woman a man is misgendering, which is transphobic even if unintentionally.

I don't care if a rapist is offended by being called a man. They are male, and if they are also a rapist then they don't deserve people tripping over themselves to lie in order to be kind.

Secondly, it is not accurate and precise enough. A trans woman is not a man, but she is not just any woman, either. Accuracy and precision are important for good record keeping, for research purposes, and for correctly informing the public.

A trans woman is male. Yes accuracy is important which is why it is imperative they are recorded as male not female in order for accurate stats about male violence.

Thus, a transgender rapist should be recorded as such in police and cps records, and should be referred to in press releases as per Stonewall guidelines (transgender woman, then trans woman for subsequent mentions).

I do actually agree that police and CPS records should record the person as Male but with the acquired gender of woman, that way we would be able to get accurate stats about how many trans gendered sex criminals there are rather than them being conflated into female reporting.

If there is any doubt, I suggest a default of assuming a suspect is trans, to avoid giving offence. Stonewall guidelines make it clear that trans is an umbrella covering many things, including men who only very occasionally cross-dress, for whatever purpose.

Why does anyone care about giving offence in this situation? Why should anyone be compelled to lie about facts in order to keep a sex criminal happy?

It would help if all press releases included an explainer box about what a trans woman is, given the surprising number of people who don't seem to know.

Unfortunately Stonewall and many in the wider community keep changing what the description of commonly used words is so they have caused any communication misunderstandings. Up until a few years ago everyone knew what a Woman and what a Man was, now it's anyone who feels like one in that moment which has made it all a bit more complicated. It's pretty safe to assume that anyone who has used their penis to sexually assault another person is a man though.

This approach may make the use of 'cisgender' (eg for other suspects) unavoidable, which I know some will dislike. But avoiding ambiguity about what is really happening seems more of a priority at the moment.

So you expect everyone to acquiesce to the term cisgendered to appease the <1% of the population who have decided their gender doesn't match their sex, and actually to appease the even smaller % of that really small % who happen to be committing sex crimes. No. I will not accept the term cis.

I agree with those who have said that to keep records and statistics accurate, "Male" and "Trans identified" should both be reported and recorded in these cases and they should not be acknowledged as being any manner of woman. Humans cannot change sex.

But they are men. You can't change sex. I would also like their trans status recorded as it's useful.

I disagree, By fighting we can come an agreement.
Fighting to win is binary which makes is strange that TRAs are happy to fight, abuse and cancel people for having a different opinion.

What @JellySaurus and @ErrolTheDragon said. And none of this cis nonsense either. Oh, and don't take everything that Stonewall say as gospel either.

Quite Errol

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/06/third-of-britons-dont-know-trans-women-born-male/

thats why it has to be repeated again and again - TW are men

Yes hence the explainer box suggestion. Keep rubbing the general public's nose in it until when they see TW they immediately think 'bloke'

OP your post contains your opinion. I disagree with almost every aspect of it and so does Ms Braverman. Happily, Ms Braverman is an extremely powerful woman who can tell the police what to do, and you are… Not.

Entire books and articles have been written about why your opinion is wrong, if you have any interest in educating yourself about the issues I suggest reading Helen Joyce’s book Trans.

I thought Ricky Gervais hit the nail on the head and haven't seen a better explanation

I think it would be helpful to have both biological sex and gender identity recorded.

I wonder how the victim of this crime feels about all this. I am sure is delighted that you are worried about offending the person who has without doubt destroyed her life. Have you been raped before by a man in a dress? No. Didn't think so.

Wrong crowd babes.

This fight is binary. Stonewall will succeed in deleting biological sex from the list of protected characteristics in the EA. Or not. We can't win without referring to the four groups they've artificially created - TW, TM, cis-M, cis-W. What they are, what they do, and what they stand to gain or lose. Example: 'TW n times more likely to be sex offenders than cis-M, say researchers'. I'm not a journalist otherwise I would be right on it.

Well transwomen are men. And transwomen who rape using their male appendage have zero right to be referred to as anything other than the men they are.

They are not any type of woman. No matter how much they might wish otherwise.

Why are you still listening to Stonewall? They have been thoroughly discredited.

Trans women are men. Men should be in male prisons.

Rape is forceable penetration with a penis and is therefore a male crime, @theilltemperedclavecinist. I do not want rapists categorised as women or even trans women.

Not Our Crime.

We can't win without referring to the four groups they've artificially created - TW, TM, cis-M, cis-W. What they are, what they do, and what they stand to gain or lose. Example: 'TW n times more likely to be sex offenders than cis-M, say researchers'. I'm not a journalist otherwise I would be right on it.

Who is "we"? Hardly anyone in the media uses "cis" apart from activists. It's not necessary. Women are the default, even if you use "transwomen", which I don't. I'm not going to sign up to anything as defeatist as what you are proposing. Women on this site have gone around the houses on this many times. There is no "acceptable" way for women to speak about our rights for trans rights activists.

Go Suella! Totally on point with this 😊

Transwomen are male. They have XY chromosomes. Every cell in their body is male.
They may take hormones, they may have surgery, they may dress in Givenchy frocks and stilettos, but they are still male.

And I believe 99% of them are harmless, decent people. But they are still male, and if they rape someone they are male rapists.

This and the rest of pp

Or in Scotland a transman i.e. a woman can be convicted of rape if she penetrates another person"s vagina, mouth or anus with a surgically constructed penis without that person's consent.

Thanks, I didn't know that, @Chersfrozenface

Stonewall aren’t succeeding at anything. Their power is massively on the wane.

Where are you getting your info from?

Have a penis? You’re a man 👍

Anyone who uses their penis as a weapon is a man. If you're male and desperate to be accepted as a woman then maybe try not raping women - actual female women - as a starting point.