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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

High Court to hear judicial review claim from nonbinary US citizen over UK gender recognition law

178 replies

IwantToRetire · 01/11/2023 00:57

A judicial review claim that argues the Government's failure to issue a nonbinary US citizen a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) breaches the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) is scheduled to be heard by the High Court on Wednesday (1 November).

Ryan Castellucci applied to be recognised as nonbinary through the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) in 2022 but is yet to have been issued a GRC.

The 2004 Act states that a person can apply for a GRC on the basis of having changed their gender under the law of an approved country or territory outside the UK.

Castellucci was born in California, which is on the approved list of territories, along with most US states.

They moved to the UK in 2019 and have sought to have their gender recognised through the 2004 Act, which does not include an explicit list of which genders can be accepted.

Castellucci believes that having a GRC which states their gender as nonbinary is the only way they can legally clarify their gender in this country.

However, the Minister for Women and Equalities argues that the GRA only permits applications for the grant of a GRC on a binary basis, namely male and female.

Castellucci argues that the Gender Recognition Panel (GRP) tasked with considering their application breached its statutory duty to issue a GRC in terms which record Castellucci's acquired gender as nonbinary.

More https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/litigation-and-enforcement/400-litigation-news/55489-high-court-to-hear-judicial-review-claim-from-nonbinary-us-citizen-over-uk-gender-recognition-law

High Court to hear judicial review claim from nonbinary US citizen over UK gender recognition law

https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/litigation-and-enforcement/400-litigation-news/55489-high-court-to-hear-judicial-review-claim-from-nonbinary-us-citizen-over-uk-gender-recognition-law

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/11/2023 13:57

How do these people get access to money to repeatedly clog up the courts with their narcissistic demands? I know all the trans lobby groups are immensely wealthy (often via misdirected tax payer's money handed over by the queer theory captured civil service) but the contrast with the fundraising that women have to undertake seems stark.

catduckgoose · 01/11/2023 14:11

I wonder how he's going to argue the 'living in the acquired gender' requirement of the GRA. Non-conformance to any sex stereotypes?

Froodwithatowel · 01/11/2023 14:13

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/11/2023 13:57

How do these people get access to money to repeatedly clog up the courts with their narcissistic demands? I know all the trans lobby groups are immensely wealthy (often via misdirected tax payer's money handed over by the queer theory captured civil service) but the contrast with the fundraising that women have to undertake seems stark.

Yes.

I am permanently livid that I have to help fund women to stand up for our rights when my taxes have been used to enable those attacking and removing them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/11/2023 14:18

He's only raised 15k for this, who is paying for it?

Signalbox · 01/11/2023 14:21

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/11/2023 14:18

He's only raised 15k for this, who is paying for it?

That's a very good question.
We know that these cases cost upwards of £150,000 and presumably if he loses there will be costs to pay.

fedupandstuck · 01/11/2023 14:21

catduckgoose · 01/11/2023 14:11

I wonder how he's going to argue the 'living in the acquired gender' requirement of the GRA. Non-conformance to any sex stereotypes?

From what I can tell (IANAL) the legal argument is that he doesn't have to satisfy the same requirements as anyone in the UK would need to, to get a GRC. Because he already has a recognised change of gender, recognised by the state of California (I think it was), he doesn't have to follow the same route to getting a UK GRC.

Bergamotte · 01/11/2023 15:17

fedupandstuck · 01/11/2023 14:21

From what I can tell (IANAL) the legal argument is that he doesn't have to satisfy the same requirements as anyone in the UK would need to, to get a GRC. Because he already has a recognised change of gender, recognised by the state of California (I think it was), he doesn't have to follow the same route to getting a UK GRC.

This is how I understand it. (That someone who already has a GRC from one of the approved countries, does not need to satisfy UK GRA requirements.)

nauticant · 01/11/2023 15:32

I was wondering what a GRC can be used for.

Having a certificate means you can:
update your birth or adoption certificate, if it was registered in the UK
get married or form a civil partnership in your affirmed gender
update your marriage or civil partnership certificate, if it was registered in the UK
have your affirmed gender on your death certificate when you die
It will not change your legal status as the father or mother of a child.
You do not need a certificate to:
update your driving licence
update your passportupdate your medical records, employments records or your bank account

https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate

Note that (unsurprisingly) a GRC wouldn't be useable by this person to update his birth or adoption certificate so he'd be arguing using one or more of the other aspects as the basis for his claim.

Bergamotte · 01/11/2023 21:29

He doesn't need to update his birth certificate though. He already had it updated with his chosen gender in the US.

As to getting married "in your affirmed gender." I imagine that if you had an updated (non-UK) birth certificate which said male or female (rather than something like non-binary which is not an option in the UK system), they would go with that on the marriage certificate, even though you didn't have a UK GRC.

So it sounds rather as though this might just be to make a point, not for any actually useful reason.

OldCrone · 01/11/2023 21:51

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/11/2023 14:18

He's only raised 15k for this, who is paying for it?

Where did you see that? On his crowdfunder it says he's raised over £71,000.

nauticant · 01/11/2023 21:51

To have a judicial review accepted by the court, for it then to be considered, the claimant needs to show standing:

No application for judicial review shall be made unless the leave of the High Court has been obtained in accordance with rules of court; and the court shall not grant leave to make such an application unless it considers that the applicant has a sufficient interest in the matter to which the application relates.

Being able to show an adverse impact, ie interference with the list above, would help in demonstrating a sufficient interest.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/11/2023 22:15

Where did you see that? On his crowdfunder it says he's raised over £71,000.

He said it in an interview I saw linked somewhere earlier but it was probably an earlier comment.

IwantToRetire · 02/11/2023 00:21

They moved to the UK in 2019 and have sought to have their gender recognised through the 2004 Act, which does not include an explicit list of which genders can be accepted.

Castellucci believes that having a GRC which states their gender as nonbinary is the only way they can legally clarify their gender in this country.

However, the Minister for Women and Equalities argues that the GRA only permits applications for the grant of a GRC on a binary basis, namely male and female.

So this is effectively an attempt to change the meaning of the intention of a GRC (to become the opposite sex). Another example of how the weasel word use of gender is gradually eroding even our ability to talk with clarity.

So is the Minister for Women and Equalities the "defendant" in this case.

Is there any reference to whether the certificate issue in the USA states that the identity if nonbinary?

(If these sort of stalking horse cases go on much longer, ie the eroding of reality, I think we should all be made to carry two certificates. Our birth certificate stating our biological sex, and an identity certificate stating our ????identity with the option of No Identity or N/A.

OP posts:
nauticant · 02/11/2023 08:13

I'm don't think there's such a thing as a gender recognition certificate in the US. As as understand it, in the US a person gets ID documents changed in a piecemeal fashion, and that whether this is permitted (or not), and whether non-binary is a "valid" gender marker (or not), and how it happens (or not), varies from state to state:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/3507206-here-are-the-states-where-you-can-and-cannot-change-your-gender-designation-on-official-documents/

The documents required in the UK to a get a GRC via the "overseas route" can be a number of things such as an updated (non-UK) birth certificate. With this being obtainable by a straightforward administrative process in many parts of the US.

FannyCann · 02/11/2023 12:27

Sorry if it's been discussed upthread but how is the NHS meant to deal with non-binary?
He will still need appointments for prostate checks. A male length Cather rather than a female one (assuming he hasn't had surgery) and so on.

Really hope this doesn't win.

OldCrone · 02/11/2023 12:58

FannyCann · 02/11/2023 12:27

Sorry if it's been discussed upthread but how is the NHS meant to deal with non-binary?
He will still need appointments for prostate checks. A male length Cather rather than a female one (assuming he hasn't had surgery) and so on.

Really hope this doesn't win.

We know what sort of surgery he's had:

Eventually they underwent surgery to construct a new vagina while preserving their penis

#NotAFetish

ArthurbellaScott · 02/11/2023 13:02

So he's likely to have a lot of extra health issues that the NHS are now going to be dealing with, due to surgery that he's ordered to create his perfect pick n mix genital arrangement.

OldCrone · 02/11/2023 13:04

nauticant · 02/11/2023 08:13

I'm don't think there's such a thing as a gender recognition certificate in the US. As as understand it, in the US a person gets ID documents changed in a piecemeal fashion, and that whether this is permitted (or not), and whether non-binary is a "valid" gender marker (or not), and how it happens (or not), varies from state to state:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/3507206-here-are-the-states-where-you-can-and-cannot-change-your-gender-designation-on-official-documents/

The documents required in the UK to a get a GRC via the "overseas route" can be a number of things such as an updated (non-UK) birth certificate. With this being obtainable by a straightforward administrative process in many parts of the US.

Thanks for that link.

So in California, he can alter his driving licence, passport and birth certificate. He says in his crowdfunder that he already has a nonbinary marker on his passport. If he wants to prove his nonbinariness anywhere in the world, he can just show his passport. This is the ID document that would be asked for in the UK as a non-UK citizen.

Why is he doing this? It seems to be just to try and change the laws of a country of which he is not a citizen. A power trip.

Chersfrozenface · 02/11/2023 13:04

Eventually they underwent surgery to construct a pseudo vagina while preserving their penis

Fixed to correct terminology.

IcakethereforeIam · 02/11/2023 13:09

As no-one can ask to see a GRC (except in some weird, probably arcane, circumstances) it does seem a weird vanity to spaff a load of money on. I wonder if the folx who have donated to his crowdfunder realise that. You don't need a GRC to call yourself nonbinary.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/11/2023 13:11

But he wants one!

ArthurbellaScott · 02/11/2023 13:11

Yes, he's effectively a legal troll.

'Hacker. Bot slayer. Ex-sysadmin. Bureaucramancer. Purveyor of technically sophisticated shitposts.'

WickedSerious · 02/11/2023 13:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/11/2023 13:11

But he wants one!

And he'll scweam and scweam until he gets one!

nauticant · 02/11/2023 13:26

If you check the link OldCrone you'll see that passport isn't included in the list of documents that show the "affirmed gender" for the "overseas route" in obtaining a GRC. My guess would be that the UK is still trying to apply some criteria and there is an understanding that passports in many countries can have the "gender marker" changed simply by making a request for that to happen.

nauticant · 02/11/2023 13:27

I meant to include this which provides some information about the "overseas route":

https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/what-documents-you-need