Butches against transpohobia

[Catsanfan]

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

So when you read all you get are trans rights are human rights

This is not controversial

But when people ask for more specifics - what human rights in the uk are problematic for transgender people - they are not available- we have to educate ourselves

Suggests you either don't actually have anything or you know that trying to say a transgender bio male person has the right to compete in female sports might not win you many friends

I see. You are unable to answer. Thanks.

This is really not difficult. I'm not sure why people are pretending this is hard to comprehend.

Do you think biological females should be permitted to only be open to dating other biological females, yes or no? In other words, do you think it's okay for women (of the female variety, not ones with penises) to be lesbians and solely date other women and exclude ALL males from their dating pool if they wish to?

Do you think it's okay for lesbians who want to have women-only meetings, without the presence of biological males (regardless of whether or not those males identify as women), to do so if they wish to, yes or no?

Do you think it's okay for women to be solely same-sex attracted, or would you suggest that's bigoted in some way?

Is it ok for lesbians to be proud of being exclusively same sex attracted, or should they keep it quiet so as not to rock the boat or offend males who identify as women?

Got to laugh at that.

Last night I realised I'm so NON gender conforming (femininity anyone? ) that some might think I'm really a man!

I'm a 48 year old mother of two kids!

Do you think it's okay for lesbians who want to have women-only meetings, without the presence of biological males (regardless of whether or not those males identify as women), to do so if they wish to, yes or no?

And as a reminder, just recently this was determined to be illegal in Tasmania. Does the people who wear shirts with “Butches against transphobia” agree with this ruling?

I assume she means "broadly sane and understands that the rights of all groups need to be taken into account".

Are we to assume that you can't name a single right which trans people don't already have?

I have educated myself, by the way. Extensively. That is why I hold such strong views.

If someone identifies as a lesbian, that is what I am going to call them

That's nonsense though. 'Lesbian' has a specific meaning that doesn't include males. A male can't be a lesbian. Females attracted to males are bisexual or straight.

I guess there is a problem that one persons sane and reasonable is another persons extremist

So what you probably just need is a broad range of people

Perhaps with a test that no group is over represented

How do you plan to ensure that?

For trans people not to be overrepresented you would probably need to have a group of at least 50 people, 25 of whom are female and only one of whom is trans. And how do you decide whether your one trans person is a trans woman or a trans man? Whether they believe that trans people should have access to single sex spaces and sports for the opposite sex or whether they believe in third spaces and sporting categories? Trans people aren't a hive mind either.

If someone identifies as a lesbian, that is what I am going to call them

Does "identifying as" have any kind of sensible limits to you? Such as Donald Trump announcing he identifies as Mexican?

Oh, do we have confirmation that non-feminine butch lesbians are women or not yet?

Does "identifying as" have any kind of sensible limits to you? Such as Donald Trump announcing he identifies as Mexican?

Indeed. I find this idea absurd.

You just need a lot of voices to be heard - as soon as you try to curate a group you won't be taken seriously by anyone excluded

It's not easy but it's only by talking and listening will progress be made

Anyone who Shuts down conversion with go educate yourself won't get a voice though - they won't talk

Also o think if lots of voices are heard the extremists can be more readily identified. We can't ever expect that everyone will be happy with any solutions - but once we can identify the extreme positions we also have a rational for knowing whose happiness is not possible to obtain

Also I won't call anyone a lesbian if they don't meet the criteria no matter how they identify - it seems insulting to other lesbians

Maybe we will get an answer. Likely it will be crickets though.

just a reminder that the lesbian project in London was protested loudly and intimidatingly here.

As were both Lesbian Strength marches in Leeds, for being lesbian only.

www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/lesbian-strength-march-through-leeds-16882234

The second one, in 2022, had to be cancelled because police didn't want to deal with the homophobic protestors.

So there's not really much living and letting live from the "trans inclusive", is there?

As you see I corrected myself later on @Catsanfan!

(Late night misreading)

@ArabellaScott asked which trans rights you are referring to in your post. She is not asking ‘what are trans rights?’

If you’re suggesting we Google ‘which trans rights is @KG74 referring to in her MN post?’ I don’t think that will get any of us very far.

Ah fair do's! Sorry, missed that didn't expect quite so many replies!

Nope.

Precisely.

Sure, it's great to be given the freedom to say yes IF you wish to. But where exactly is the freedom in not ever being permitted to say no?

Classic "I haven't a fucking clue" response 😂
Just as well none of us need educating...