Page 18 | Butches against transpohobia

Catsanfan · 2023-10-24T15:09:00+00:00

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

Justwrong68 · 25/10/2023 08:54

Karwomannghia · 24/10/2023 18:52

I know a few lesbians who go out with transmen. Maybe I should let them know they should be transphobic in order to be proper lesbians.

If they're going out with trans men then they're at least trans denying; they're lesbians going out with women

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/10/2023 08:56

Yes, the TRA researchers I mentioned below weren't too impressed with people claiming to be same sex attracted who only dated trans people of the opposite "gender" to their sex.

Justwrong68 · 25/10/2023 08:57

@Bobbotgegrinch I think you've taken the word exist out of context, this is the kind of hysterical misunderstanding that's fuelling TRAs' violence

Justwrong68 · 25/10/2023 09:01

heathspeedwell · 24/10/2023 19:00

As a bisexual woman I've been going to bars and clubs with gay and lesbian friends for over two decades. One thing I have noticed a lot in the last decade is that lesbian friends do NOT want to sleep with transwomen, but might be interested in non-binary women or transmen.

Similarly my gay male friends might be interested in transwomen but most wouldn't touch a transman with a barge pole.

Surely a journalist could just look at the results on Grindr and prove for once and for all that sexual attraction is about sex, not gender.

Indeed! Journalists, just like teachers are terrified to say anything negative about trans. It's where we are now

MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 09:04

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/10/2023 08:56

Yes, the TRA researchers I mentioned below weren't too impressed with people claiming to be same sex attracted who only dated trans people of the opposite "gender" to their sex.

It's like that Pink News article someone linked to earlier which describes it as "surprising" that some lesbians would consider dating trans men but not trans women, and some gay men would consider dating trans women but not trans men.

Is it really surprising though??

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/10/2023 09:06

It's surprising for gender believers.

lifeturnsonadime · 25/10/2023 09:09

MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 09:04

It's like that Pink News article someone linked to earlier which describes it as "surprising" that some lesbians would consider dating trans men but not trans women, and some gay men would consider dating trans women but not trans men.

Is it really surprising though??

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Ha this is where they will be saying it is the lesbians who date trans men are the heterosexuals, rather than the trans women who are claiming to be lesbians.

It's just all so ridiculous.

What's especially ridiculous is no one on the GC side is objecting to anyone shagging anyone (despite the claims of the TRA) it's just that the word lesbian has a very specific meaning which does not include shagging a person of the opposite sex no matter how they identify.

Anyone can shag anyone but if a woman has sex with a trans woman she is having heterosexual sex.

The outcome is the same for everyone in this scenario except that homosexual women get to keep their words. But we can't be having that can we because some males might get hurty feelings!

PlanetJanette · 25/10/2023 09:14

MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 07:58

Sorry but this is nonsense.

Lesbians whose boundary is, "We want a word that means female homosexual and does not include anyone who is male or attracted to males" are being told that they can't have that boundary.

And Nancy Kelley, whilst in her role as CEO of Stonewall said that lesbians who would not consider dating trans women just because they happen to have been born male are akin to sexual racists.

I'm not making this up. She actually said it.

It's unclear whether Nancy Kelley's own lesbian sex life has ever included any penises, or whether she was only talking about other lesbians.

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That is precisely the point.

Lesbians are being told - very often by straight people - what their lesbianism has to mean. It's BS. That is straightforward policing of women's sexuality.

Lesbians get to decide what their sexual or romantic boundaries are - no one else.

MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 09:21

PlanetJanette · 25/10/2023 09:14

That is precisely the point.

Lesbians are being told - very often by straight people - what their lesbianism has to mean. It's BS. That is straightforward policing of women's sexuality.

Lesbians get to decide what their sexual or romantic boundaries are - no one else.

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You are so close to getting it. And yet, so far.

The point is that language needs to have meaning. There need to be words for different biological sexes and different sexualities which are defined according to objective criteria.

If some biological females who are exclusively sexually attracted to other biological females want to have a word for themselves, which only refers to them and does not include any biological males or any biological females who are attracted to biological males, they are entitled to do so. Until about five minutes ago, the word for that group of people was "lesbians".

All biological males and all biological females who are attracted to biological males - whether they are also attracted to biological females or not - should respect lesbians' right to have their own word by not using the word "lesbian" to refer to themselves and coming up with a different word to describe whatever it is they believe they are.

By using the word "lesbian" to describe themselves, they are failing to respect a boundary that lesbians believe should exist.

Self-identified "lesbians" who are either trans women or women who would consider dating trans women, and who say that everyone gets to decide how they define their sexuality are not trans inclusive lesbians. They are non-lesbians who have decided they wish to use the word "lesbian" to describe themselves.

Original poster

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 09:34

JaneGainsborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

It's no point arguing with these people. It isn't enough for them to live and let live, they want to insist that everyone has the same opinions that they do, hence the thread being started in the first place. I wouldn't waste your energy.

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OP here. Live and let live...OK answer me this. Do you want Lia Thomas in a women's swimming race? And Isla Bryson in a women's prison? If the answer is yes, then please explain your reasoning

OP posts:

Original poster

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 09:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 23:34

The OP and others are just angry because they hoped for a thread where people would come and tut about those awful awful trans women, and instead were told it was NBD

That really isn't the majority of posts on the thread, most of them are calling out the homophobia. Perhaps you're reading a different one?

OP here- exactly

OP posts:

Original poster

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 09:39

tobee · 24/10/2023 23:19

"
They are as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think it's a niche viewpoint."

Yeah it is a niche viewpoint though

Yeah no it really isn't

OP posts:

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2023 09:43

PlanetJanette · 25/10/2023 09:14

That is precisely the point.

Lesbians are being told - very often by straight people - what their lesbianism has to mean. It's BS. That is straightforward policing of women's sexuality.

Lesbians get to decide what their sexual or romantic boundaries are - no one else.

Show quote history

Genderism tells us that men who fancy women are allowed to decide they are lesbians.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/10/2023 09:43

Lesbians get to decide what their sexual or romantic boundaries are - no one else.

Yes, it's not for straight people or bisexuals to tell lesbians and gay men that being exclusively same sex attracted is wrong.

Froodwithatowel · 25/10/2023 09:47

So a quick skim since last night demonstrates:

total lack of reading comprehension, much straw manning despite people repeatedly explaining and in quite small words what they mean and think

constant misrepresentation of other people's views

much DARVO

much denial

much random identified as claims such as 'most people' and 'everyone but you' type stuff, never substantiated

A lot of extremist belief and a quite staggering disrespect and disregard for others, on top of alternative reality and happy delusion blocking anything that does not jive with this.

Whatever, frankly. It proves again: you cannot be reasonable or find compromise with those incapable of actually touching hands with any reality or facts other than the ones they want, and there is no point in trying to discuss other people's needs and feelings with those who shout a lot of buzzwords about inclusion and kindness but only mean them and their mates. And frankly would treat others in ways that the history books have horror stories about.

The conversation needs to be had with rational and impartial people in positions of power and influence, who still have the capacity for objectivity and equality of consideration. And a grip on reality.

Original poster

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 09:50

Lesbians dating transmen is far more understandable than lesbians dating transwomen. It actually shows that there is an understanding that transmen are women and actually therefore undermines gender ideology

OP posts:

MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 09:51

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 09:50

Lesbians dating transmen is far more understandable than lesbians dating transwomen. It actually shows that there is an understanding that transmen are women and actually therefore undermines gender ideology

I think, at a most basic level, it shows that lesbians like vulvas and not penises. And despite being attracted to women and not men, they still prefer manly vulvas to womanly penises.

Original poster

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 09:51

Indeed @MargotBamborough !

OP posts:

Justwrong68 · 25/10/2023 09:56

Froodwithatowel · 25/10/2023 09:47

So a quick skim since last night demonstrates:

total lack of reading comprehension, much straw manning despite people repeatedly explaining and in quite small words what they mean and think

constant misrepresentation of other people's views

much DARVO

much denial

much random identified as claims such as 'most people' and 'everyone but you' type stuff, never substantiated

A lot of extremist belief and a quite staggering disrespect and disregard for others, on top of alternative reality and happy delusion blocking anything that does not jive with this.

Whatever, frankly. It proves again: you cannot be reasonable or find compromise with those incapable of actually touching hands with any reality or facts other than the ones they want, and there is no point in trying to discuss other people's needs and feelings with those who shout a lot of buzzwords about inclusion and kindness but only mean them and their mates. And frankly would treat others in ways that the history books have horror stories about.

The conversation needs to be had with rational and impartial people in positions of power and influence, who still have the capacity for objectivity and equality of consideration. And a grip on reality.

Edited

By impartial do you mean straight and gender conforming?

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2023 09:59

Froodwithatowel · 25/10/2023 09:47

So a quick skim since last night demonstrates:

total lack of reading comprehension, much straw manning despite people repeatedly explaining and in quite small words what they mean and think

constant misrepresentation of other people's views

much DARVO

much denial

much random identified as claims such as 'most people' and 'everyone but you' type stuff, never substantiated

A lot of extremist belief and a quite staggering disrespect and disregard for others, on top of alternative reality and happy delusion blocking anything that does not jive with this.

Whatever, frankly. It proves again: you cannot be reasonable or find compromise with those incapable of actually touching hands with any reality or facts other than the ones they want, and there is no point in trying to discuss other people's needs and feelings with those who shout a lot of buzzwords about inclusion and kindness but only mean them and their mates. And frankly would treat others in ways that the history books have horror stories about.

The conversation needs to be had with rational and impartial people in positions of power and influence, who still have the capacity for objectivity and equality of consideration. And a grip on reality.

Edited

Yes, indeed.

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2023 10:00

By impartial do you mean straight and gender conforming?

Eh?!

KG74 · 25/10/2023 10:02

That's fair. In fact, I currently don't know a single lesbian who is against trans rights. and none of them have been 'surprised' by a penis on a date! That's another myth that is used as a tool to spread hate.

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2023 10:03

KG74 · 25/10/2023 10:02

That's fair. In fact, I currently don't know a single lesbian who is against trans rights. and none of them have been 'surprised' by a penis on a date! That's another myth that is used as a tool to spread hate.

Which rights do you mean when you say 'trans rights'?

KG74 · 25/10/2023 10:05

Blimey. GC group-think response there. If you don't know, maybe have a quick Google and read some non-GC material about it. I am not here to educate you.

Original poster

Catsanfan · 25/10/2023 10:07

KG74 · 25/10/2023 10:05

Blimey. GC group-think response there. If you don't know, maybe have a quick Google and read some non-GC material about it. I am not here to educate you.

It's not us that need educating

OP posts: