Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 6

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read
URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

I think they know they are done for and at this stage it's just about damage limitation.

Their only means to do that was discredit JP while she was on the stand.

I think they probably want their witnesses off the stand as fast as they can.

They also probably tried to settle to avoid this at all I would imagine.

KM has a job to do, she has to do the best of her ability by her client and that's probably being done best by getting the likes of HBC off the stand at the earliest opportunity.

JM may well argue that this material is irrelevant to the narrow scope of the grounds of the complaint to the employment tribunal.

(Apparently JM declared at the outset that she doesn't redirect which is why no interventions are forthcoming, I think.)

A minor point from today's bin fire of evidence.

Among all the other terrible logic and lack of thought, I'm pretty sure the 'keep it in private email rather than official accounts, to avoid FoI' was wrong. I'm sure our org's data security training says to avoid using private accounts for security and to reduce the risk of accidental GDPR breaches, but that in the event of an FoI request everything is disclosable. Private and official accounts.

Yes @BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn I think an FOI requests all relevant information regardless of where it is help - precisely to stop people hiding things

Deb Drake was a coauthor on that weird “we fought the law” paper so I look forward to BC exploring the working relationship between DD and other witnesses and whether DDs memory is any better than theirs.

Will we finish witnesses tomorrow

Thanks @ickky and everyone. I've been lurking right from the beginning, and really appreciate all the comments. I've done a bit of digging in Jo's garden, and have also planted for Allison and Keira. I really hope when the judgement comes in on this one it will get some major publicity and start to shake up HR departments, education institutions and civil service and local authorities.

I think witnesses will take until COP Wednesday.

I think during the timetable discussion last Friday it was agreed not feasible to finish witnesses COP Tuesday so they agreed by COP Weds and then a day off, then oral submissions on Friday.

Thanks I thought JM said submissions on Thursday but I must have misheard

I've lost track at this point of how many witnesses Ben has had to say he'll demonstrate the lying cover their evidence in submissions. Friday may be a long day.

I'm still thinking that through.

I'm trying to understand if they were fighting "managerial terrorism" by using popular terrorist tactics as seen in many dramas. E.g., small cells that intentionally remain unaware of others so that the loss of one cell doesn't have an impact on the larger movement.

Bringing down a VC and claiming credit for it seems quite the achievement for a succession of individuals, several of whom claim to have a "little voice".

They seem to have formed the opinion that they were primarily activists and not employees.

Yes @RethinkingLife I find it astonishing that they are so proud of bringing down their VC that they chose to publish a paper on it.

Wondering if the OU VC (and indeed pro VC) know about that paper

I still feel sort of nervous that they have been allowed to repeatedly call Jo a transphobe, as if that’s ok to say. I do hope Ben raises it because that is a slur, effectively the tribunal has been used to continue the harassment and the trashing of Jos professional reputation. Being gender critical is not about hating transpeople.
Im also astonished that these people are respected academics.

One day Richard Dawkins might see this, and it'll blow his mind.

Richard Dawkins is well aware of this phenomenon, and has conceded that believing in a "greater power" whether that is God, or a special rock - whatever - confers an evolutionary advantage. (It is too widespread not to.)

Good point!

I would add @Zebracat I'm not sure they qualify as respected academics

There are an estimated seven and half hours of cross exam to go. That doesn't include time for questions from the judge/panel or for witnesses to huff about the state of the bundles. Running into at least Wednesday morning seems almost certain. Whatever happens I'm sure BC will do what he can to have the time he wants on DD.

Richard Dawkins is well aware of this phenomenon, and has conceded that believing in a "greater power" whether that is God, or a special rock - whatever - confers an evolutionary advantage.

I have not read around this topic at all, but it would not be hard to see that a having a shared belief/set of values means you are part of a collective and being part of a collective means you have a better chance of surviving than being on your own.

Nothing like having an original idea that's not so original, lol.

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”
― G.K. Chesterton

I am a little sad that I missed this this afternoon...

It is.

It's interesting to see this extremism reach the point of pressure in a court that is likely to result in advice given widely to HRs.

It would seem that those who have taken on the religion of this movement complete with 'you are either one of us without stain of sin, or our enemy', will either have to learn moderation and tolerance, or it will have to be recognised and eventually acted on at government level that living this faith cannot be compatible with a job in a public service where impartiality is required. I honestly wonder which it will be.