Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

I think she was trying to shut him down.

If I remember rightly he was starting to make this a wider concept, including the balancing of rights between different views/groups of people generally - and if you start doing that it becomes very clear that one group's insistence on their rights can damage the rights of another group and that both sets of rights have to stand and be accommodated (regardless of the fact that one side is shouting louder and making threats).

Yes, the 'objectionable' comments are all made at about the 60 minute mark, about 15 mins from the end, and not by Jo.

“Heard”

BC with MW - as if to a little child

I'm desperately trying to catch up here (so apologies if the scasting is already decided). Can I nominate Nina Sosanya
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0815317/

MW - it was a widely held belief that the GCRN was transphobic. That's not my belief because I've talked to JP.

BC: People believed GCRN was largely about transphobia.

BC: Do you agree GC views not transphobic

MW: Yes

BC: Not giving GCRN an OU home because of objections to its beliefs would be direct discrimination.

MW: How are you defining DDiscrim?

BC: Treating a person differently because of their protected beliefs.

MW: GCRN continued to be housed in the OU

BC: Not my q

BC- if ou had ejected GCRN wd you agree that wd have been less favourable treatment? MW- It was differential treatment.

BC: This was group letter relying on numbers to pressure OU to act against GCRN cos of their beliefs?

MW: I would broadly agree

BC: That is over the line, to put pressure on employer to discriminate.

MW: I'm not comfortable when you talk c discrimination

MW- I struggle with 'over the line'. BC - do you agree there is a line?

This is familiar territory for many academic women.

'Well, you chose to be controversial / to rock the boat / to leave.'

J doesn't want qs arising from hypotheticals.

Another wriggling worm on the hook.

BC - so are you saying as per JM it's not discrim because it refers to the network and doesn't name JP??

Ah so BC is trying to show the OU did not take action against the signatories to the open letter even though they were being discriminatory and so had stepped over the “line”. This is the point where the OU should have taken action as per its policies and didn’t.

MW: this is about the network, not the people.

BC: You are saying this isn't discrimination cos directed at the network and the letter doesn't mention the people in the GCRN by name. Have we really reached that point in our discussion? Is that what makes the difference between improper and fine?

MW: It's asking for the removal of the network.

BC: That would have involved the six people in the OU who formed the network.

MW: Yes

MW .- it involved everybody in the network
BC- right, that was 6 people at the time

How he remains sounding so patient is beyond me.

MW: if you're talking about the protesting, yes there are other ways of doing it.

BC: This isn't just saying we object to GC beliefs cos harmful to t. We want you to discrim and will engage in all these way to make you do what we ask.

I don't think he's human.

I really wouldn't want to be Prof Wilson

Yes and the 'line' in this case is their own policy.

I suspect Ben Cooper has something akin to eidetic memory.

In addition to the insight into the OU practices, this is providing an interesting spotlight on the calibre of their academic staff.

Akua Reindorf now appears as a guest.