Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

So, true, @LipbalmOrKnickers

What's the excuse, this time??

I think this is at the root of the issue. The existence of the GCRN full stop. “it came out of nowhere” ffs. Jo and Jon Pike and others thought they were setting up a new research network to discuss the impact of sex and gender. TRAs appear to believe it’s a group who get together to be mean about trans people.

JM saying she is finishing up. As we haven't been given the link to SE's witness statement not much the wiser.

@CriticalCondition I am struggling to understand the acronyms being used by Tribunal Tweets. What is the RSS group, do you know?

SE disagrees strongly with JM who says OU did not try to shut down GCRN. SE says OU tried to remove the infrastructure of the GCRN.

Break til 11.15, observers being booted then let back in. What could go wrong?

OK I have called them. I spoke to a very nice lady who initially said the hold up is due to the clerk having to go through security checks. I noted to her that a lot of people seem to be waiting and that we've already missed an hour of the session. So she went off to speak to the clerk who apparently told her that the conference is at capacity right now and on-one else can be let in, because it may cause the system to crash. I can't believe that is true given that there were more people observing last week. So I really don't know now, but I need to go do my meeting so will try again later.

These trans-allies and TRAs just can't stop behaving in an intimidatory manner, can they? They demand sensitivity and understanding but they show none of it to people who don't see the world in the way they do.

It's the sunk costs fallacy, isn't it? They've got to keep going with the demonisation to convince themselves they're in the right otherwise they'd have to face up to the idea that they're actually in the wrong. And that is not a concept with which gender ideologists seem to be able to cope.

Sorry Erish, I don't know what RSS stands for. I think ickky posted a useful link from TT with the acronyms. I'll try and find it.

I was in but found it really difficult to follow. The witness voice was very faint.

Yes, this.

I fail to see how having people that don't need to be there, staying there and attending, in large numbers, can be anything other than an attempt to bully (and misappropriation of university funds).

It's clearly not in the witnesses best interests. Although maybe the OU wants to send the message to its witnesses 'look what happens to those that criticise - do as you're told when you're a witness or this will be you'.

I've just said hello too the clerk. So hopefully I'll be in after the break. Her sound was terrible, lots of noise in the background. As someone said last week, noise cancellation technology is pretty standard now!

Thanks to @katmarie for the update. Seems they couldn't get their story straight - is it security checks or is it system capacity? Or just chaos?

I think RSS may actually be FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences but TT is mishearing? Is it being pronounced as Fah EssEss? Easy for TT to think it's R Ess Ess.

Just a guess.

Sorry Erish, I don't know what RSS stands for. I think ickky posted a useful link from TT with the acronyms. I'll try and find it.

Thank you! It keeps changing from RSS to RSSH and RSH in the TT tweets.

I'm voting for chaos!

Duh, that link is at the top of this thread. Sorry, I'm sure you must have checked that already, Eresh and it's not there.

Ah ok makes sense @LarkLane, thanks!

Me too, I have just spoken to the clerk too.

What did they say, @katmarie ?

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area

Or maybe some version of this?

They asked me if I was plannign to keep camera on or off, I said off, because I'm also working from home. She then said, ok great, I'll pop you back into the lobby for now. That was it.

How are you getting to speak to the clerk?

Pretty much word for word the same conversation I had too. @JoIsBraverThanIAm I did nothing, a voice suddenly came from the computer saying Hello Lady Disdain!

Has it started again? I'm still out and hearing the voice 'waiting for the blah blah blah'.

Tribunal tweets aren't in yet either