Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

What facilities would a non-binary person not be able to access at work?

Err so what was the point of signing the letter then?

PB - ...suck female cock.

BC - OK we will leave it there. Those are my questions.

😂😂😂

They literally cannot answer a simple question. They should definitely be a politician.

Bizarrely started going on about sucking female cock. 😂

Ben has left the witness there, talking about 'sucking female cock' (said in a low voice). Snort.

How, how did the witness get on to sucking female cock???

Witness did state earlier in that it was difficult to find appropriate toilet facilities that they found comfortable to use. Perhaps they were thinking of this?

Yes, Ben is like a gender critical mage, who like Brigadoon, is only allowed to be seen once every hundred years.

Or slightly more often if we can do some magical gardening.

Like many people here, I consider money invested in Ben to be money well spent. You see where your money goes. Can't begin to imagine all the thought and planning and checking that goes into devising the precise series of questions needed to shoo the sheep witness down the Lane of Faulty Reasoning and into the Pen of Fools.

Oh that was priceless! 😂

Ooh! 😂

She doesn't realise that she's been steered by an expert hand.

The words 'female cock' must have reverberated around that room, like the peal of an enormous bell. Where the sound waves keep hitting your ear drum long after it's finished.

Your guess is as good as mine.

I think they (when I say they, I mean all the OU witnesses) must have a pact to get that sentence in there somewhere.

She was asserting that people who joined the network would likely agree that transwomen force women to suck female cock.

cross-posted...

WTF?

It's mentioned in the podcast.

TT commentary

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1711362254287847501.html

Given that they is an academic, does they have evidence for that statement? If not, they is just airing their prejudices..... which one might think is a bit of a problem in an employment tribunal.

Omg!!

so she's trying to say that they won't force women to suck female cock. But she still thinks it's fine to include the term female cock???

would likely agree
would likely agree
would likely agree

Ahhhh they definitely all think this, even though they cleverly say different things... but we all know what they mean!

difficulty finding appropriate toilet facilities to use where they felt comfortable

this is where ideology clashes with disabled people vulnerable to seizures - it’s not about being comfortable it’s about being safe.

The new toilet guideline proposals referred to universal toilets (ie full height doors with doors opening inwards, no visibility or emergency accessibility) being ok for everyone - single sex toilets too.

And the designers really haven’t thought through that safeguarding requires visibility. Small enclosed non visible mix sex spaces? With at least one rape a day in schools?

Ben was asking PB whether knowing a letter had been signed by 360 members of staff would make PB think twice about joining the organisation the letter was against.

PB said that anyone wanting to join thr organisation must believe what had been said in the podcast to be true, that trans women are forcing women to suck female cock.

It's also a bit fucking rich given that gender ideology has meant that there are no fucking public toilets which I feel comfortable to use cos of the likelihood of finding a 'woman' with a cock in them.

I meant in the court just now. If they go to the pub afterwards they would be there as individuals, not acting as the OU.