Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

What did she say?

I’ve just managed to join today and I’m already laughing at the witness’s inability to answer a straightforward question.
BC’s voice has a strain in it I recognise when dealing with my own children.

Hey ho. I've got to go out for a bit. Drat. Just as the real steel is entering BC's voice.

@Ameanstreakamilewide Just re stating BC's question. She is being wilfully ignorant now.

Sorry, they

😂Me too. Thought they're definitely not as infuriating as this witness.

PB does not understand words to mean what the rest of us think words mean.

I think BC should ask 'is water wet' and PB would say 'no, I don't think that is clear'......

It's quite possible that the witness did think that Jo was referring to something else. We often start reading things with a bias that sometimes makes us misinterpret it.

I suppose they think it would be Tribunal suicide if they said, oh, I thought it was that line, not this one.

Thank you.

It's a crying shame that so many of us haven't been able to dial in.

I really hope the judge does listen to the Savage Minds podcast - it would clarify many things.

She's just determined to say no to everything.

It really is toddler 101.

I'm glad the judge asked to listen to the podcast herself and can form her own opinion and not rely on this tortuous evidence. If BC asked witness if the sky is blue then the witness wouldn't be sure.

I find this odd. Dr AviB had no difficulty understanding intersection in this panel for which the first talk was Finding my voice as a Kurdish woman migrant scholar
This talk, by Necla Acik, reflects her long-term work and activism as a European Kurdish feminist migrant scholar which in the pandemic has led to her engagement with the Kurdish Gender Studies Network (KGSN).

From additional interest (from FWR perspective), the panel also had a presentation from Jacob Breslow. “People had to accept me as a boy”: Feminist Tomboy Childhoods and Trans Futurities”
This talk, by Jacob Breslow, re-thinks the ways in which trans childhoods are imagined in the current landscape of anti-gender and gender critical mobilisations. Focusing on memories of gendered embodiment within gender critical narratives of childhood, it subverts the work that childhood is asked to do, and instead orients these memories toward transfeminist solidarities.

Jacob Breslow:* *https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11279121/Mermaids-trustee-steps-speaking-event-hosted-paedophile-supporting-organisation.html

BC seems to be doing a lot of "we'll leave that to the tribunal"...

Just got a link - are we on a break?

In a pub or in the court?

Actually, the sky here is Farrow and Ball's Ammonite at the moment, so PB would be right.

I can see the sun is shining in Watford though...

oooh, on to the open letter and why they signed it...

I'm hoping that this debacle will peak the Judge.

You never know!

That Savage Minds podcast ought to be issued with every copy of the Bench Book.

"BC: Well if you think a colleague has said something improper, you could raise a complaint, or engage in argument.
PB: Yes
BC or you could engage in a more general critique of gender critical beliefs.
PB: Yes"

Is this BC going in for the kill?...

OMG they didn’t think about the fact the open letter had clear actions.

How many of the OU witnesses signed the letter are thinking oh shit!

Crikey!

Don’t believe a word of it. They have a much thicker shell than that. They will simply be thinking BC is a transphobe and his questions are causing a trans genocide. They are probably assuming the only reason the police haven’t been called is because the judge is a transphobe too.

You're probably not far wrong