Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Is anyone in?

The cognitive dissonance must be awful, unless they're just very, very stupid.

The evidence so far (not just this tribunal) is decidedly in favour of the latter.

And that 'up to 100 victims is fine' post. IIRC, it was 100 per year, not total.

Who is that dickhead, who dresses like Alice in Wonderland on Ketamine??

He said it 'wouldn't matter if there was a slight spike'.

That exact person was referenced as having "contributed" to a newsletter this morning in the Dr Boukli cross examination by BC.

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1711339453808079138?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

Talking with a friend in academia about how difficult it can be to manage some of these activist academics and how scary their irrational and entitled ignorance is. SE seemed really clear and adult, takes emotions out of it and treats everyone the same. Then EB enters and you get a taste of just how difficult she is to deal with. She's made two formal complaints against JP on the basis of the Equality Act but doesn't understand the EA and has assumed it says what Stonewall says it says (which is doesn't). She appears to have difficulty even contemplating information or a pov that doesn't fit with her own. She insists that an article with a URL that can be traced back to author A was actually by author B (something that she didn't check before including it in her witness statement) to fit her narrative. How on earth is someone like this paid to do research?

The podcast is excellent, well worth a listen.

Judge to BC You said and hour with PB, it's been an hour and a half, how much longer.

BC - Slight chuckle, it has taken longer than anticipated.

She's made two formal complaints against JP on the basis of the Equality Act but doesn't understand the EA and has assumed it says what Stonewall says it says (which is doesn't).

If PB read the Reindorf report PB might find it enlightening.

I'm gutted that I missed his wry chuckle.

I’m making a long motorway journey today and just stopped off for a break, but mostly to catch up with this thread. I’ve literally just burst out into loud laughter at this post and everyone in the car-park (it’s hot, so my car windows are wound down) is staring at me.

Well worth it, though.

Dr B- it's questioning the existence of transgender people.
BC- well, we'll leave it to the tribunal to decide whether that's a reasonable interpretation.

I wish I had drawn up that bingo card.

PB believes JP was denying the existence of trans people by asking what is the T upon her return to the UK, what is the T added to the LGB.

BC, that's not what she said.

PB disagrees

I see a pattern developing here. BC points out each massive error in thinking in Dr Boukli's witness statement and provides the logical interpretation to which BC will reply 'I disagree'.

Oh, really?

I shouldn't be that surprised, I suppose.

But she wouldn't, would she, because it doesn't say what she wants it to say. Which isn't how any academic should be thinking.

Now they're faced with someone who can spell out the facts and the nuance of the Equality Act inside out, back to front and upside down and it must be dawning on them at some level that they have massively fucked up by not applying more critical thinking to the original EDI training...

Don’t believe a word of it. They have a much thicker shell than that. They will simply be thinking BC is a transphobe and his questions are causing a trans genocide. They are probably assuming the only reason the police haven’t been called is because the judge is a transphobe too.

@SaffronSpice 😂

I aspire to Ben Cooper's level of patience when dealing with my children...

FFS is she really this unable to understand a simple question.

Me too...

Perhaps if BC ever fancies a career change he could be a male Supernanny

I think at this rate, they will be on the witness stand for the next 2 weeks.

Interesting that it's gone from it never, ever happens, to it wouldn't matter if there was a slight spike, to I reckon about a 100 a year is about right.

BC is being SO patient.

Dr B- waffle, waffle, waffle
BC- I'm just trying to identify the right place, I'm not asking you any questions about it yet. Dr B- ok. (Long pause). I'm not sure....

🤣🤣🤣

So true!

Indeed, and in the blink of an eye, too.

Who could have possibly predicted this volte face??

Judge has had to intervene yet again.