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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

495 replies

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 09:53

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

A new website will allow voters to instantly find out whether their MP thinks women must be born female

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
EasternStandard · 26/09/2023 15:07

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:04

I can't actually read the article because of the paywall but assume it's the normal Telegraph waffle about how great Sunak is vs how shit any left leaning politicians are

Well you may have summed up your side, up to you

But no it doesn’t say that

I quoted the relevant copy for you. Not hard to see what the actual question is.

It doesn’t mention penises but a definition so it is what you actually want. Apparently

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:08

I'm very curious as to why this is coming up now when we don't have a date for the GE, as well. It might not happen until 2025.
I'd have thought a more fruitful plan would be to get the definition of woman updated in law (the equalities act) during the lifetime of this parliament? Sunak should be able to do that with his majority.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 26/09/2023 15:09

I'm going to take it for absolute granted that KingsHeath83 has never ever thought about how vulnerable disabled women may be, and is never going to educate her- or himself. I am also certain KingsHeath83 has never thought about the scale of disability. For example my level of disability doesn't make me vulnerable, but leads me to empathise with those worse affected. However, you see a lot of complete smuggos using people like me as an excuse to dismiss the issues of those with more severe needs.

Generally speaking, there is very little social kudos attached to being aware of how marginalised disabled people are. More specifically, I have seen the disablism of trans activists firsthand. It's got to the point that I associate trans activism with vicious mockery of disabled people.

So therefore today I will be educating the ignorant.

extract

Eighty-three percent of disabled women experience rape or abuse, often at the hands of caretakers. And without a way to report their violations, the perps frequently go unpunished.

Despite the emergence of the #MeToo movement, we have still seen women’s voices belittled, dismissed, and outright silenced as they’ve testified against the men who have sexually assaulted them, from Bill Cosby’s and R. Kelly’s accusers to the congressional testimony of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford. Imagine, then, the plight of those who so often don’t have a voice. Right now in America, disabled women of all ages and intellectual and physical capacities are being sexually assaulted by the very people pledged to their care and protection—nurses, aides, and other caregivers—often in nursing homes, long-term care facilities and group homes that advertise compassionate and loving care in a home-style environment. Hacienda HealthCare, in Phoenix, Arizona, is one of those places.

It was a shocking story. A young Native American woman who is severely disabled, non-verbal, and incapable of moving on her own, gave birth to a baby at Hacienda HealthCare, a long-term care facility, on December 29, 2018. The woman had been living at the facility since she was 3 years old. Although initial reports described the woman as in a “persistent vegetative state, her family has since clarified that she is not, but has “significant intellectual disabilities as a result of seizures very early in her childhood.”

Though its website portrays a diverse, compassionate, loving home serving “infants, children and young adults who are ‘medically fragile’ or have developmental disabilities,” the story unfolding at Hacienda HealthCare since the initial discovery of the woman’s giving birth paints a starkly different portrait. The panicked call to 911 operators reveals that nurses, who called because the baby was turning blue, weren’t even aware the patient was pregnant.

On January 16, pending investigations, Arizona state regulators, including the Arizona Department of Health Services, ordered the facility to retain a state-approved third-party manager to oversee the daily operations of the facility. They collected DNA samples from male staff who had contact with the woman, and on January 23, Nathan Sutherland, 36, a licensed practical nurse (that is a nurse who provides basic and more intimate nursing care), was arrested on suspicion of one count of sexual assault and one count of vulnerable adult abuse.

The case raises myriad questions, not the least of all, how this woman’s caretakers—who change and bathe and dress her and tend to her menstrual needs—failed to notice she was pregnant. Though its website portrays a diverse, compassionate, loving home serving “infants, children and young adults who are ‘medically fragile’ or have developmental disabilities,” the story unfolding at Hacienda HealthCare paints a starkly different portrait. The call to 911 operators reveals that the nurses were in a state of panic, unaware that the woman was even pregnant. Equally troubling was that Phoenix police did not initially call the incident a sexual assault—why? “I can’t think of a legitimate reason not to call it what it is,” said former chief sex crimes investigator Bill Richardson. “The woman who gave birth is incapable of giving consent, that means that it’s a sexual assault. It’s that simple,” he said.

In a January 9 statement, the family’s attorney John Micheaels said they were “outraged at the neglect of their daughter,” adding that “the family would like me to convey that the baby boy has been born into a loving family and will be well cared for.”

A week later, after Hacienda was ordered to obtain a third-party manager, Micheaels released another statement to the press from the family, which said in part, “The facility chose not to express any remorse or apology for the inexcusable failure to protect and safeguard their vulnerable daughter.” Hacienda said five days later that the two doctors caring for the young woman were no longer caring for patients. One resigned and one was suspended. The CEO who had been overseeing them all resigned a week after the news broke.

Is this egregious Phoenix case an anomaly? In just the past few months, there have been similar stories in the news reporting incidents of sexual assault of disabled women, often at the hands of a caregiver. In several cases, the rapes were only discovered because the women became pregnant. In October, caregiver Divine Nde Momuluh, 39, was charged with sexual assault of a vulnerable adult after he impregnated a woman with intellectual disabilities at the Minneapolis group home where she lived. In late December, Rusty Lee Love was released on $50,000 bond, but not officially charged in the suspected sexual assaults of three developmentally disabled women for whom he was a ride-provider in Orange County, California.

Police are currently investigating whether there are other victims.

As these cases show us, women with disabilities, especially intellectual disabilities, are often perceived as “easy targets” because they may be more vulnerable to manipulation and have difficulty reporting the abuse. And the statistics bear this out. In 2017, 77 percent of incidents of rape and sexual assault were not reported to the police. The enormity of that number suggests that within the context of disability, where so many victims may not even have access to language, or where the person they would report it to is the same person perpetrating the assaults (and on whom they are dependent for their most basic care), the number might be perilously close to 100 percent. If non-disabled women are afraid to report their sexual assaults for all the reasons we have become familiar with, how are the most vulnerable women in our society expected to report?

According to Human Rights Watch (HRW), disabled women are at greater risk of being sexually assaulted than other women and are far less likely to be able to get help because they “tend to have lower educational, financial, professional, and social success than both non-disabled females and their disabled male counterparts. Because women with disabilities are more isolated than most under-represented groups, their plight typically has not been addressed. Women with disabilities, therefore, warrant unique attention when examining abuse and violence.”

This means that every aspect of the disabled woman’s life might be controlled by one or more caregivers and there is literally no way for the victim of sexual assault to tell anyone because she has no access to outside intervention. In the Arizona, Florida, and Minnesota incidents, the pregnancies alerted authorities to the rapes. But how long had those women been being victimized? And how many other women might have been preyed upon by the same, or other, caregivers who have yet to be caught?

HRW says disabled women are subjected to forced sex with workers, caretakers, or other residents of group homes; being beaten, slapped, or hurt; forced sterilization or abortions; being locked in a room alone; ice baths or cold showers as punishment; forced medication (i.e., tranquilizers); having to undress or be naked in front of other people; watching other people be abused or hurt; being tied down or put in restraints. The list is harrowing as it is egregious. If these things were being done to a non-disabled person, it would be considered torture. But these are common experiences for disabled women.

The most recent U.S. Department of Justice report on Crimes Against Persons With Disabilities released in 2017 cites the rate of serious violent crime, including rape or sexual assault, robbery and aggravated assault, of people with disabilities as more than three times the rate of assaults on people without disabilities. One in five violent crime victims with disabilities said they believed they were targeted due to their disability. Women are the most frequent victims with at least 60 percent reporting abuse.

And there are 27 million American women who have a disability, with a full 50 percent of women over 65 who have at least one disability, according to the Centers for Disease Control. The DOJ uses the term disability to include limitations such as sensory (vision, hearing), cognitive, self-care, and ambulatory or mobility limitations.

A year-long investigation in 2017 by NPR News’ Joe Shapiro, in partnership with the DOJ, led to a series of reports that aired last January on “Morning Edition” and “All Things Considered,” revealed that people with intellectual disabilities are sexually assaulted at a rate seven times higher than those without disabilities.

Toni Lewis’s* mother was among the statistics. Lewis placed her mother in a long-term care facility after her mother’s early-onset Alzheimer’s when they could no longer care for her without help. Lewis, whose partner is a social worker, said the couple had visited several facilities and finally chose one that was a manageable distance from their home “so I could check in on her and visit a few times a week,” and had the services required for dementia patients.

“Mom goes in and out,” Lewis says about her 68-year-old mother. “She’ll be perfectly lucid and having a conversation with you and then she just forgets where she was in the conversation and even in physical space. We had to move her out of our house because there was no one to watch her during the day and there had already been an incident with the stove being left on and another where she was found wandering in our neighborhood. We couldn’t risk her being hurt.”

Yet that was exactly what happened within her first six months at the nursing home. “Everyone gets the occasional bruise,” Lewis says. “But it seemed Mom was getting a lot of bruises. On her wrists, her upper arms. When I spoke to the nurse about it, she dismissed it as ‘normal from bathing and dressing’ and said some medications made older women more prone to bruising.”

One evening while visiting, Lewis was helping her mother into bed and she saw bruises on her mother’s thigh. When she reflexively reached out to touch them, her mother began crying, and saying, “no, no, no” and rocking back and forth. “I felt sick,” says Lewis. “I went into the bathroom and threw up in the sink. I was pretty sure I knew what had happened and I both couldn’t believe it and didn’t know what to do about it.”

Advocates for the disabled say that most people do not know what to do about sexual assaults in nursing homes and long-term care facilities, especially for victims who cannot speak for themselves. Many victims like Lewis’s mother don’t have the capacity to explain what has happened to them because they have memory problems or limited to no speech. They also may have difficulty understanding or conveying time sequences and thus cannot describe when something happened to them.

Link to rest of extract in next post.

EasternStandard · 26/09/2023 15:09

The process is happening

It requires the consultation stage

Even if another party were in that process would be there

EasternStandard · 26/09/2023 15:10

That’s to the poster who was wondering why it wasn’t done yet

ResisterRex · 26/09/2023 15:12

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:04

I can't actually read the article because of the paywall but assume it's the normal Telegraph waffle about how great Sunak is vs how shit any left leaning politicians are

Naming of MPs in ‘women have a penis’ row

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1435/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/1435/pub/1435/page/30/article/NaN

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:12

EasternStandard · 26/09/2023 15:07

Well you may have summed up your side, up to you

But no it doesn’t say that

I quoted the relevant copy for you. Not hard to see what the actual question is.

It doesn’t mention penises but a definition so it is what you actually want. Apparently

The title of the article and the thread both say MPs who think women have penises to be named and shamed.

A later post of OP is
"
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MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election
7 replies

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 09:53

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

A new website will allow voters to instantly find out whether their MP thinks women must be born female

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies

Go to post

ADVERTISEMENT

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 10:04

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 09:56

Oh, I'm all for this.

Hopefully the cowards who keep quiet and mutter about things being complicated will finally be forced to take a stance, one side of the divide or the other. I bet there will be some who refuse to answer, which is an answer in and of itself.

Bollocks on the block, lads. Lets see who has the balls to be openly anti-woman.

Yes the next election is really a chance to push the idea that sex matters higher on the agenda along with demanding results on sex related issues. No more sitting on the fence.

Yes it is going to result in a LOT more misogyny in the short term, but it is the only way to fight this stuff on a serious level. We need to step everything up a notch. More demos, more questions, more meetings.

Remember we still have to fight back against huge sexism in the Civil Service, NHS, academia, schools, culture industries, long long way to go.

Go to post

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 11:16

This campaign is great right now, but it naturally leads onto bigger things. We need more depth stuff too.

Which is why I said we need women's hustings everywhere. We need to ask the basic stuff, do women exist, but that opens more questions.

Most Tories can answer what is a women. Put them on the spot on other things.

Gender ideas in the NHS etc which they created when they were in power.

What about child care ? What about VAWG?

All the parties are failing women and to be frank men and children too. We need to demand more from them.

Go to post

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 21:38

The website is not up yet, but they are now live on Twitter. Follow them!

What Is A Woman Campaign
twitter.com/WhatIsAWomanUK

We ask MPs and prospective MPs #whatisawoman; a UK grassroots campaign bringing honesty and transparency to the next General Election & debate on sex and gender

Now over 3,500 followers in one day. Unreal! The voting public clearly demand and value transparency, just as we do. We are only just getting started. Keep sharing / reposting / liking.

What is better they are having the first results from MPs are coming in.

Conservative MP for Workington Mark Jenkinson MP

How did we end up in a place where we need a website to tell us which politicians think women can have a penis??

They can’t, under any circumstance.

No ifs, no buts.
twitter.com/markjenkinsonmp/status/1706013131841880379

On the other side Kate Osborne Labour MP for Jarrow stated:

I'll save them the bother of doorstepping me.

Yes some women have a penis.

It's clear that Tory allies will help with their #waronwoke"

Forgive me for thinking penises appear to be central here. I'm fed up of centring the penis in everything.

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:14

I mean how antifeminist:
What is a woman? A person without a penis

Gives me the rage.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2023 15:14

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:08

I'm very curious as to why this is coming up now when we don't have a date for the GE, as well. It might not happen until 2025.
I'd have thought a more fruitful plan would be to get the definition of woman updated in law (the equalities act) during the lifetime of this parliament? Sunak should be able to do that with his majority.

I believe that we are already working on just that.

Women have been campaigning for this and we still are. So, this website is just another campaign run by a yet undisclosed group.

There are quite a few major campaign groups doing things that are relevant to them yet all working towards a similar end goal. Just as you suggested up thread. It is happening while you post.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 26/09/2023 15:16

AdamRyan thanks for restating that you're only responding to the headline. Noted. Come back when you have something relevant to contribute.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2023 15:16

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:14

I mean how antifeminist:
What is a woman? A person without a penis

Gives me the rage.

Can you reword the 'what is a woman' question to deliver a very clear answer that is not open to interpretation as the most latest answer that Starmer gave has been?

How would you word it to deliver complete clarity in the answer please?

EasternStandard · 26/09/2023 15:19

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:12

The title of the article and the thread both say MPs who think women have penises to be named and shamed.

A later post of OP is
"
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Back to thread
MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election
7 replies

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 09:53

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

A new website will allow voters to instantly find out whether their MP thinks women must be born female

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies

Go to post

ADVERTISEMENT

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 10:04

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 09:56

Oh, I'm all for this.

Hopefully the cowards who keep quiet and mutter about things being complicated will finally be forced to take a stance, one side of the divide or the other. I bet there will be some who refuse to answer, which is an answer in and of itself.

Bollocks on the block, lads. Lets see who has the balls to be openly anti-woman.

Yes the next election is really a chance to push the idea that sex matters higher on the agenda along with demanding results on sex related issues. No more sitting on the fence.

Yes it is going to result in a LOT more misogyny in the short term, but it is the only way to fight this stuff on a serious level. We need to step everything up a notch. More demos, more questions, more meetings.

Remember we still have to fight back against huge sexism in the Civil Service, NHS, academia, schools, culture industries, long long way to go.

Go to post

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 11:16

This campaign is great right now, but it naturally leads onto bigger things. We need more depth stuff too.

Which is why I said we need women's hustings everywhere. We need to ask the basic stuff, do women exist, but that opens more questions.

Most Tories can answer what is a women. Put them on the spot on other things.

Gender ideas in the NHS etc which they created when they were in power.

What about child care ? What about VAWG?

All the parties are failing women and to be frank men and children too. We need to demand more from them.

Go to post

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 21:38

The website is not up yet, but they are now live on Twitter. Follow them!

What Is A Woman Campaign
twitter.com/WhatIsAWomanUK

We ask MPs and prospective MPs #whatisawoman; a UK grassroots campaign bringing honesty and transparency to the next General Election & debate on sex and gender

Now over 3,500 followers in one day. Unreal! The voting public clearly demand and value transparency, just as we do. We are only just getting started. Keep sharing / reposting / liking.

What is better they are having the first results from MPs are coming in.

Conservative MP for Workington Mark Jenkinson MP

How did we end up in a place where we need a website to tell us which politicians think women can have a penis??

They can’t, under any circumstance.

No ifs, no buts.
twitter.com/markjenkinsonmp/status/1706013131841880379

On the other side Kate Osborne Labour MP for Jarrow stated:

I'll save them the bother of doorstepping me.

Yes some women have a penis.

It's clear that Tory allies will help with their #waronwoke"

Forgive me for thinking penises appear to be central here. I'm fed up of centring the penis in everything.

Yes which is why I quoted the relevant part for you twice

The question IS what is a woman

No one has to mention penises

If you were an MP and answered you could answer in whatever wording you want

Helleofabore · 26/09/2023 15:27

Adam

did you miss the second paragraph of the OP.

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 26/09/2023 15:29

We've now touched on the vulnerability of the most profoundly disabled women, who are entirely dependent on care from others.

So how is it going for women who can participate in public life more independently? The women who can communicate and can study and work? Not that great, sadly.

extract

Amy Kavanagh is as happy as anyone else that the world is opening up – but there is one thing she is not thrilled to be experiencing again. “As much as I’m excited to be getting out and socialising again, it comes at a cost,” she says. Kavanagh is blind and sexual harassment is as frequent in her everyday life as it is disturbing. “I get harassed in public, on the street, in shops, on public transport, in cabs and even in professional environments. Pre-pandemic, I experienced inappropriate sexual touching at least once a month,” she says.

While there has been a renewed focus on women’s safety since the deaths of Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa, little attention has been paid to the harassment and violence faced by disabled women. Yet women with a disability are almost twice as likely to have experienced sexual assault (5%) as women without a disability (2.8%), according to ONS data for the two years to March 2020. This is not an anomaly; in the previous three years, the figure was 5.7%. In 2021, a survey of more than 1,000 disabled women carried out by the Trades Union Congress found that 68% had experienced sexual harassment at work. The figures constitute a hidden blight on disabled women’s lives.

Kavanagh says men often target her under the guise of assistance. “A typical experience is that someone offers to help me cross a road and, whether or not I accept, they grab me by the arm and refuse to let go. Often they will use this opportunity to touch my breasts, make inappropriate comments about my sexuality or physical appearance, or ask me personal questions about my body,” she says. She is certain that men target her because she is blind. “I can’t easily identify them, I can’t see them coming or know if they are following me or watching me.”

Continues at The Everyday Assault of Disabled Women

The everyday assault of disabled women: ‘It’s inappropriate sexual touching at least once a month’

They are almost twice as likely to be sexually assaulted as non-disabled women. Why is so little being done to address this harrowing, pervasive problem?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/the-everyday-assault-of-disabled-women-its-inappropriate-sexual-touching-at-least-once-a-month

Baldieheid · 26/09/2023 15:46

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 26/09/2023 15:29

We've now touched on the vulnerability of the most profoundly disabled women, who are entirely dependent on care from others.

So how is it going for women who can participate in public life more independently? The women who can communicate and can study and work? Not that great, sadly.

extract

Amy Kavanagh is as happy as anyone else that the world is opening up – but there is one thing she is not thrilled to be experiencing again. “As much as I’m excited to be getting out and socialising again, it comes at a cost,” she says. Kavanagh is blind and sexual harassment is as frequent in her everyday life as it is disturbing. “I get harassed in public, on the street, in shops, on public transport, in cabs and even in professional environments. Pre-pandemic, I experienced inappropriate sexual touching at least once a month,” she says.

While there has been a renewed focus on women’s safety since the deaths of Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa, little attention has been paid to the harassment and violence faced by disabled women. Yet women with a disability are almost twice as likely to have experienced sexual assault (5%) as women without a disability (2.8%), according to ONS data for the two years to March 2020. This is not an anomaly; in the previous three years, the figure was 5.7%. In 2021, a survey of more than 1,000 disabled women carried out by the Trades Union Congress found that 68% had experienced sexual harassment at work. The figures constitute a hidden blight on disabled women’s lives.

Kavanagh says men often target her under the guise of assistance. “A typical experience is that someone offers to help me cross a road and, whether or not I accept, they grab me by the arm and refuse to let go. Often they will use this opportunity to touch my breasts, make inappropriate comments about my sexuality or physical appearance, or ask me personal questions about my body,” she says. She is certain that men target her because she is blind. “I can’t easily identify them, I can’t see them coming or know if they are following me or watching me.”

Continues at The Everyday Assault of Disabled Women

I'd like to say this shocked me, but I cant.

I'm epileptic and whilst seizures look like you're out for the count, in my case I'm still aware of my surroundings.

I once had a seizure in a park and two 20 something males took the opportunity to shove their hands down my trousers and up my top.

To all the complacent, smug, "tw are the most marginalised" people here, specially the female "feminist" ones, I hope your next shit is a hedgehog.

Iwillnotdancewiththedevil · 26/09/2023 15:49

For the first time ever in my life, I have today contacted my MP - prompted by this thread. I've wondered for a while about their views on this subject but never actually done anything about it.

I'm aware this doesn't warrant a medal but personally just felt a little pride in doing something myself, rather than just being a spectator.

Thanks PPs for giving me lots of thoughts on how to frame my questions.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 26/09/2023 15:50

Baldieheid I am so angry on your behalf. Thank you for sharing that and I hope your post makes a particular past poster feel very ashamed of herself.

Baldieheid · 26/09/2023 16:00

SOME trans individuals ARE very vulnerable. The kids, especially. I do not, and never will, consider older males who transition as part of their fetish (that which cannot be named), vulnerable. What I DO consider them, and the females who pander to them, isn't allowed to be written or said. I'd be banned on here. Possibly spoken to by the police for "wrongthink".

Most vulnerable, my big fat arse.

MargotBamborough · 26/09/2023 16:05

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:04

I can't actually read the article because of the paywall but assume it's the normal Telegraph waffle about how great Sunak is vs how shit any left leaning politicians are

Gosh, what an important addition to this thread.

MargotBamborough · 26/09/2023 16:06

AdamRyan · 26/09/2023 15:14

I mean how antifeminist:
What is a woman? A person without a penis

Gives me the rage.

A woman is an adult human female, i.e. a member of the childbearing sex.

Do you think this is antifeminist?

Helleofabore · 26/09/2023 16:09

To @KingsHeath53

Here are a few threads where it is quite clear that there are issues with males being prioritised above female people to the detriment of female people

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4870071-gym-swimming-changing-issue?page=1

Some people who filed a complaint about the situation in the link below were reported to the police for making complaints about safeguarding.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4409035-A-trans-Identified-BDSM-fan-gun-nut-is-now-a-senior-leader-at-Girlguiding?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4539958-big-update-on-rape-crisis-legal-challenge?page=1

Below is an example of just how hard it is to use the exclusions available to woman to exclude all male people. Some women have to go to court to do so, how is this not detrimental:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4735747-raquel-rosario-sanchez-has-won-her-case-against-bristol-students-union

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4772051-film-of-protest-outside-the-lesbian-project-meeting?page=1

I mean, below is a feminist group who has not been able to show their documentary in Edinburgh because it has been blocked physically via violence and intimidation and threat 2, actually is it 3, times so far.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4793551-adulthumanfemale-edinburgh-26-apr?page=1

I am very happy to keep posting links to threads that show just how inclusion of male people has been already detrimental to women and girls. Just say the word and I will find so many more for you to start that research you seem to have not done.

Would you care to come back and give us your number of how many women and girls you find will be acceptable to come to any type of harm when gender is prioritised over sex in society, in law and in policy?

Any number, just tell us how many you are comfortable with being harmed?

Gym /. Swimming changing issue | Mumsnet

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women. Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 an...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4870071-gym-swimming-changing-issue?page=1

Helleofabore · 26/09/2023 16:10

It is not just female prisoners, it is more far reaching than that.

www.canlii.org/en/on/onwsiat/doc/2022/2022onwsiat1544/2022onwsiat1544.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQALVHJhbnNnZW5kZXIAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=5

Toronto court involving a female prison officer.

The issue on appeal was whether the worker had entitlement to benefits for PTSD and, if so, under which WSIB policy.

By way of background, the worker claimed that while working as a corrections officer, she developed a mental stress injury of PTSD, resulting from being assigned to a mental health watch on December 16, 2019, in which she was responsible for monitoring a transgender inmate on suicide watch on a closed circuit camera. She claimed that the assignment was not manageable for her because of her own childhood trauma, which she advised the employer and the union of. However, she had to continue in the assignment for the duration of her shift and extra hours afterwards. She began missing time from work on December 19, 2019 and was diagnosed with PTSD on January 2, 2020.

and

The worker testified that she told her manager that she was not comfortable watching this inmate on camera and that she was not familiar with all the protocols for transgender inmates. In her view, it should have been a male officer watching the inmate. She told her manager that she would take any other assignment as she was not comfortable with this assignment. Her manager told her she had to take the assignment and they would try to get someone to switch out with her. At one point she saw the inmate go to the bathroom, but the inmate covered the camera and therefore she had to call officers right away as she could not see if the inmate was head-banging or trying to tie something around her neck. The officers went down and found that the inmate had covered the camera to go to the bathroom even though the worker had already seen her do this many times.

The worker testified that she asked a few managers to switch her out of the assignment but it had to be a female officer monitoring the inmate as this was required by the protocol. This was the first time in Canada that an inmate identifying as female with external genitalia was on camera and no policies were yet in place for this.

The worker testified that she became more and more anxious and felt traumatized by being forced to watch this inmate and by being unable to leave. She asked for help from her manager and to be taken off the post a number of times. She was so upset that she divulged that she had been sexually abused in childhood to her manager. However, her manager told her she could lose her job or be reprimanded if she left the post. The manager told her she would ask the female officers to switch with her, as the monitoring on camera had to be done by a female, but the manager did not call her back.

The worker testified that she was supposed to work a 9 hour shift, from 2:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. However, she had no relief for a break to go to the bathroom or for supper as she could not leave her post unless someone came to relieve her. Other officers brought her in food but would not relieve her for a break. When the next manager came on and her shift ended, the manager told her that he had asked two female officers to replace her but one went home sick and the other refused the assignment. She was therefore ordered to stay until someone else was able to relieve her. Therefore, she ended up remaining on the post until 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning.

This woman won her case for compensation for her PTSD retrauma.

2022 ONWSIAT 1544 (CanLII) | Decision No. 895/22 | CanLII

Access all information related to judgment Decision No. 895/22, 2022 ONWSIAT 1544 (CanLII) on CanLII.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onwsiat/doc/2022/2022onwsiat1544/2022onwsiat1544.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQALVHJhbnNnZW5kZXIAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=5

RavingStone · 26/09/2023 16:16

baldieheid that's so awful. I am disgusted by those men and so angry for you. How terrifying to be aware but incapacitated.

During my second pregnancy I experienced levels of sexual harassment comparable to when I was teenage/ 20s. I realised then that it was vulnerability, not "hotness" that these men go for.

My second baby was a huge bugger lying in the wrong position and moving became difficult, awkward and slow. All of the instances of sexual harassment happened when I was alone, moving from a to b, and my vulnerability was obvious.

Kucinghitam · 26/09/2023 16:20

I am very very grateful to @KingsHeath53 for being the Voice of the So Marginalised Right Side Of History, shining a brilliant light with the devastating winning points such as:

*But what about the poor menz??
*Not All Men Are Like That
*Sometimes women are bad too
*It's only a tiny number of Special People
and especially, the winning point
*N+1