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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

495 replies

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 09:53

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

A new website will allow voters to instantly find out whether their MP thinks women must be born female

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Floisme · 28/09/2023 16:35

Excuse me AdamRyan.

I post on this board and have posted on this thread. I am not a Conservative voter. I have voted Labour my entire adult life, even in 2019. I don't know how I will vote next time.

There are many posters like me who nevertheless enjoy amicable conversations with Tory voters.

The idea that you are some kind of lone voice is comical and also says a lot about how much attention you pay to other posts.

I welcome this initiative. As far as I'm concerned if it shows Labour candidates in a bad light then that is Labour's fault and no-one else's.

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 16:36

Floisme · 28/09/2023 16:35

Excuse me AdamRyan.

I post on this board and have posted on this thread. I am not a Conservative voter. I have voted Labour my entire adult life, even in 2019. I don't know how I will vote next time.

There are many posters like me who nevertheless enjoy amicable conversations with Tory voters.

The idea that you are some kind of lone voice is comical and also says a lot about how much attention you pay to other posts.

I welcome this initiative. As far as I'm concerned if it shows Labour candidates in a bad light then that is Labour's fault and no-one else's.

I was going to say I’m pretty sure there are non Conservative posters on here

I’m glad you did as I couldn’t recall who

Helleofabore · 28/09/2023 16:38

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 16:30

I don't need to come up with a question because I'm not running the campaign, I'm not involved with politics and I'm very happy with my own voting intention in my constituency with my dickhead MP.

Happy to hear your thoughts on a question. I'm actually going to be quite interested if this even gets off the ground. My money is on it being a damp squib.

So you want to not shape this campaign to be stronger than you believe it is now, you simply want it to go away. Can I ask why you are so invested in this thread ? I mean, you are free to post wherever and whenever and whatever you want. But this thread seems to be going in diminishing circles, yet many of us want to discuss it and who knows, we may even get involved.

LondonLass91 · 28/09/2023 16:39

Floisme · 28/09/2023 16:35

Excuse me AdamRyan.

I post on this board and have posted on this thread. I am not a Conservative voter. I have voted Labour my entire adult life, even in 2019. I don't know how I will vote next time.

There are many posters like me who nevertheless enjoy amicable conversations with Tory voters.

The idea that you are some kind of lone voice is comical and also says a lot about how much attention you pay to other posts.

I welcome this initiative. As far as I'm concerned if it shows Labour candidates in a bad light then that is Labour's fault and no-one else's.

I agree with this - I'm typically right of centre, definitely more conservative than Labour generally, yet feel exactly the same on this issue as my very left wing relatives from North Yorkshire x

Helleofabore · 28/09/2023 16:40

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 16:36

I was going to say I’m pretty sure there are non Conservative posters on here

I’m glad you did as I couldn’t recall who

I would suggest that there are more than one posting on this thread who fit the description of 'non-conservative' voters.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/09/2023 16:41

this is just a Conservative voting echo chamber.

😂

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 16:42

Helleofabore · 28/09/2023 16:40

I would suggest that there are more than one posting on this thread who fit the description of 'non-conservative' voters.

Yep totally!

MargotBamborough · 28/09/2023 16:51

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 16:23

I know all of that. But the fact is I've been subject to numerous pile ons, on this board, for stating things like:

  • Kemi Badenoch is not a feminist
  • KJK is not a feminist
  • Suella Braverman is populist and scary
  • Muslim men are not more of an issue than men generally
  • men can currently legally be recognised as women
  • I don't want to listen to Jordan Peterson
  • "free speech" proponents are often right wing
  • I think that the rape and violence statistics in this country are terrifying
  • I trust Starmer more than Johnson/Truss/Sunak

These are views I cannot square with posters being feminist and supporting women. They are views I can square with posters being right wing and posting on the board because they agree with the broader views of defining women on the basis of their biology.

Some of these things seem pretty uncontroversial. KJK has stated many times that she does not consider herself a feminist. She's entitled to reject that terminology if she wishes; she's still fighting for women's rights.

It's also not really a matter of debate that men can currently legally "become women" even if they cannot become women in any meaningful sense.

But some things on your list are matters of opinion, nothing more.

When you act as though the only reason you can think of why people should vote for you is that the Tories are the nasty party (which is a fundamental feature of Labour Party campaigning), you need to make damn sure you are not being nasty to women. Otherwise you're just a bunch of hypocrites, aren't you?

Yes, we get it, the Tories are nasty. So are you though. What's your excuse?

Like I said before, if you say there is such a thing as a female penis, the amount I will trust you is zero. So it's not mathematically possible for me to trust the Tories LESS than Starmer.

IwantToRetire · 28/09/2023 16:51

Have to say I have given up reading this thread as it has been hijacked by one individual who thinks we are all so stupid we would dumbly follow a secretly conservative funded single issue campaign.

Why is any one bothering to respond? Most of all of this have been said on any number of threads about being politically homeless.

There is no evidence it is conservative funded, it is a cross party initiative.

It is a single issue campaign, no different from say a campaign that says people of different races should all be paid equally for the same work.

And finally, even if many on FWR are invested in knowing the answers MPs will give, 99.9% of the electorate wont care.

This is like those threads about KJK where totally fantasies are posted usually making reference to right wing fundamentalists and / or nazis. And every response gives the individuals the opportunity to respond saying the same thing over and over again.

The purpose being that in terms of the internet and search engines etc., is that (because they are only basically counting machines) they will add up all the references to this being a tory plot that dim wit karens on mumsnet have fallen for, in the same way it they tot up all the references to KJK linked to right wing / nazi.

Dont give them the oxygen to inflate their false flags.

Or perhaps we can have another thread where we just monitor how this campaign spans out.

This is all whatabouterry

Waitwhat23 · 28/09/2023 16:52

I'm definitely not a Tory voter. Voted SNP before they fucked it all up. Various parties in Scotland are absolutely heinous for a number of reasons and the smaller parties (Alba/ISP etc) either have their own issues or are too small to ever make a dent in the votes.

As I've said before, I'm politically homeless. Had to spoil my last couple of votes.

I'd be surprised if more than a couple of posters on this board vote Tory and I'm guessing out of those, at least a few do with a sense of holding their nose.

teawamutu · 28/09/2023 16:53

Floisme · 28/09/2023 16:35

Excuse me AdamRyan.

I post on this board and have posted on this thread. I am not a Conservative voter. I have voted Labour my entire adult life, even in 2019. I don't know how I will vote next time.

There are many posters like me who nevertheless enjoy amicable conversations with Tory voters.

The idea that you are some kind of lone voice is comical and also says a lot about how much attention you pay to other posts.

I welcome this initiative. As far as I'm concerned if it shows Labour candidates in a bad light then that is Labour's fault and no-one else's.

Precisely. If the answers make Labour look stupid, credulous or anti-woman, then that's their problem to address, not ours to avoid by not asking the question.

FYI, Adam, I voted Labour until 2019 and have abstained or voted independent since. I will vote Conservative with a very heavy heart if ever I'm driven to it, but I haven't yet. Thinking Labour have been appalling twats on this issue and owe women a MASSIVE apology does not a Tory shill make, thank you.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 28/09/2023 17:00

It's extremely boring and at this point I'm literally only posting otherwise this is just a Conservative voting echo chamber.

This is exactly the deliberately inflammatory behaviour that led me to ask if you were working for the Conservative party.

Do you honestly not grasp why? You are so ludicrously patronising and insulting, that I can't believe you could lack self-awareness of it. The only interpretation left is that you are adopting a false persona in order to alienate prospective Labour voters.

IcakethereforeIam · 28/09/2023 17:08

I'm a person who would rather vote Labour, I'd vote for Corbyn! My constituency is marginal between LibDem and Cons. I have no idea what my MP thinks on this issue, they never answered my emails and it was starting to feel embarrassing. So I hope they answer the question. And the candidates put up by the other parties, I want to know their answers. Otherwise I'm left hoping the SDP or the Commies run for the seat.

EasternStandard · 28/09/2023 17:17

So now we don’t need the services of the one poster who thinks they’re saving us from a conservative voting echo chamber

Maybe they’ll be relieved and not bother

IcakethereforeIam · 28/09/2023 17:18

My favourite colour is blue though😳

Cailleach1 · 28/09/2023 17:26

What a load of baloney, @AdamRyan .

What is gender, but made up poppycock which doesn't define anything without 'socio' before it. Biological sex on the other hand is real.

Laughing about the camps of credulous ideological, boll*xology adherents, or traditional religious conservatives.

A simple 'this is anti-reality and anti-science' is good enough.

Very good post from Margo. Wasn't surprised at the 'Yeah, yeah, BUT..' response. Put me in mind of 'Little Britain'.

Very well done to whoever is making it public which potential political candidates are ok with pushing or supporting this fiction. Those who have no concern with the potential damage to, and limiting of the lives of women and children.

I'm thinking of the woman battered by a man who was admitted to a women's hostel in Ireland. A man who punched her in the face (with his 160% stronger male punch on her thin skull). It is my opinion that the Irish politicians who pushed that through in Ireland created the situation where that man was able to access that woman in that hostel and beat the crap out of her. I think it was around a 89% male parliament in Ireland at that time. Not that I think many female politicians put their head above the parapet to push for the better treatment of women. Or, at the very least not to create oppressive or dangerous situations for women (and children).

Cailleach1 · 28/09/2023 17:33

I think the 'j'accuse' of everyone voting Conservative is a little ploy. Rather like Lyndon Johnson's campaign manager who wanted to accuse Lyndon's opponent of something (I won't say what).

After Lyndon said 'we can't say that 'cos it's not true', the manager responded 'Of course not, but let's make the B*stard deny it'.

Cailleach1 · 28/09/2023 17:38

Just to clarify, I'm not equating voting Conservative with the accusation of Lyndon Johnson's manager.

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 17:43

MargotBamborough · 28/09/2023 16:17

Why do you think Labour will implement policies that benefit women?

You can't protect what you refuse to even acknowledge or name.

Because they have policies ike this:
https://labour.org.uk/ending-violence-against-women-and-girls/

And this :https://www.ft.com/content/44d4b4ba-7b77-41fb-a354-0f2f84475b7d

And this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/03/labours-wes-streeting-launches-review-to-plan-for-national-care-service

All things that are going to make things better for women.

The Conservatives have "we know what a woman is". Well duh. Well done. They back that up with a track record of effectively decriminalising rape, more women leaving work and falling into poverty because of caring commitments they can't meet any other way (no carers/too expensive), etc etc. Oh, and Suella Braverman will stop women claiming asylum on the basis of persecution from their misogynist countries because "multiculturalism has failed".

My judgement is women would be better served by a Labour government.

Ending Violence Against Women and Girls

Labour has published a Green Paper on how to end the epidemic of violence against women and girls. We want to hear your views.

https://labour.org.uk/ending-violence-against-women-and-girls

PaperWalkAndTalk · 28/09/2023 17:43

This thread seems to be "gender criticism can be left wing, but you are all right wing because you're gender critical".

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 17:45

Helleofabore · 28/09/2023 16:38

So you want to not shape this campaign to be stronger than you believe it is now, you simply want it to go away. Can I ask why you are so invested in this thread ? I mean, you are free to post wherever and whenever and whatever you want. But this thread seems to be going in diminishing circles, yet many of us want to discuss it and who knows, we may even get involved.

No, I don't want it to go away, I'm expressing my opinion on the campaign, as I'm entirely entitled to do on a public message board.
I continue to post because people are wilfully misrepresenting my views and that is annoying.

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 17:46

Floisme · 28/09/2023 16:35

Excuse me AdamRyan.

I post on this board and have posted on this thread. I am not a Conservative voter. I have voted Labour my entire adult life, even in 2019. I don't know how I will vote next time.

There are many posters like me who nevertheless enjoy amicable conversations with Tory voters.

The idea that you are some kind of lone voice is comical and also says a lot about how much attention you pay to other posts.

I welcome this initiative. As far as I'm concerned if it shows Labour candidates in a bad light then that is Labour's fault and no-one else's.

Sorry, I apologise. I think I sent thanks for one of your posts upthread.

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 17:48

ArabeIIaScott · 28/09/2023 16:41

this is just a Conservative voting echo chamber.

😂

Nice out of context quote
"It's extremely boring and at this point I'm literally only posting otherwise this is just a Conservative voting echo chamber."

AdamRyan · 28/09/2023 17:51

MargotBamborough · 28/09/2023 16:51

Some of these things seem pretty uncontroversial. KJK has stated many times that she does not consider herself a feminist. She's entitled to reject that terminology if she wishes; she's still fighting for women's rights.

It's also not really a matter of debate that men can currently legally "become women" even if they cannot become women in any meaningful sense.

But some things on your list are matters of opinion, nothing more.

When you act as though the only reason you can think of why people should vote for you is that the Tories are the nasty party (which is a fundamental feature of Labour Party campaigning), you need to make damn sure you are not being nasty to women. Otherwise you're just a bunch of hypocrites, aren't you?

Yes, we get it, the Tories are nasty. So are you though. What's your excuse?

Like I said before, if you say there is such a thing as a female penis, the amount I will trust you is zero. So it's not mathematically possible for me to trust the Tories LESS than Starmer.

  1. Noone will be voting for me because I'm not involved in politics
  2. I never said women have penises
  3. In what way am I being nasty to anyone? Or is it just you can't tolerate a difference of opinion?
  4. I thought exactly the same re: your first paragraph, yet I have been absolutely crucified. Either because my UN is male so people argue with me because they think I'm an MRA. Or because I'm open that I like starmer so they assume I'm a TRA (as demonstrated by your point 2)
Floisme · 28/09/2023 17:52

I don't think you did Adam but hey ho let's not waste any more time checking.

You know what, since you started posting on this thread I have been for a mini break and come back to find you still claiming the initiative is futile, which of course is entirely your prerogative but, and speaking strictly for myself, if I think something is a waste of time, I normally find ignoring it works well.