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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Census ‘hugely overstated’ trans population - Telegraph article

107 replies

xxyzz · 24/09/2023 00:29

Census 'hugely overstated' trans population (telegraph.co.uk)

or

Census 'hugely overstated' trans population (archive.ph)

The Office for National Statistics “hugely overestimated” the number of transgender people in the UK, Whitehall sources have claimed, as the body admitted it could have carried out “additional probing” before releasing the controversial data.

An official inquiry by the Office for Statistics Regulation (OSR) into the census finding that 260,000 people identified as transgender has drawn up several “lessons learned” from the way the data was handled by the ONS.

They include a conclusion the ONS should do more to communicate “uncertainty” about the data and should have sought external “quality assurance”.

Twitter thread here: Professor Alice Sullivan on X: ""The Office for National Statistics “hugely overestimated” the number of transgender people in the UK, Whitehall sources have claimed, as the body admitted it could have carried out “additional probing” before releasing the controversial data" t.co/kNtOqExFSq" / X (twitter.com)

Census ‘hugely overstated’ trans population

Office for National Statistics may have lost its 'credibility' to accurately record sex and gender, suggests Whitehall source

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/09/23/census-hugely-overstated-trans-population/

OP posts:
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11
CantDealwithChristmas · 29/01/2024 15:50

Speaking as an immigrant. I have said from the start that the whole trans / pronoun madness thing is incredibly discriminatory against people whose first language is not English.

This census screw-up is a good example. There are fairly significant recent-immigrant groups in parts of the UK, especially London boroughs and the Midlands, who are fairly culturally insular (as recently immigrated peoples have tended to be throughout history) and whose English is not yet fluent. They porobably have no idea what a 'trans woman' is.

Is it an older woman? An unmarried woman? A pregnant woman? A menopausal woman? Ah, that must be it, well I'll tick that box then.

The confusion is not helped by the fact that even fully integrated, fluent English speakers can't agree on what a trans woman is e.g.

  • Stonewall thinks it's any man who ever liked the colour pink or thought about cross-dressing, ever
  • Nicola Sturgeon thinks it's any man who puts on a wig, unless of course he commits a sex crime in the wig, in which case he's a fake trans, which is somehow different from a true trans
  • Judith Butler thinks it's a performance
  • Monroe Bergdorf thinks it's an ineffable inside feeling
  • Dawn Butler and Layla Moran think the soul is gendered and the body isn't, and only certain very special people can see what gender the soul is (needless to say, Dawn and Layla are two of these very rare and special people)
  • Kier Starmer thinks it's a tiny population of very vulnerable people which silly women should stop getting their knickers in a twist about
  • Rachel McKinnon thinks trans women have ladybrains and, subject to the correct doses of hormones, the body will soon follow
  • Owen Jones thinks trans women are much better than real women, unless of course he's searching for a broody lesbian

If native speakers are this confused, what hope is there for a poor woman just off the plane from Poland or Pakistan?

Froodwithatowel · 29/01/2024 16:14

It's all hugely exclusionary.

Men in women's spaces excludes women, from many vulnerable, marginalised groups without a powerful and very shouty lobby with flags to fight their equality. It harms them. It subordinates them. It shuts them out of society and says they're not worth access to the resources their taxes pay for.

The fucking about with language to get men enjoying womenhood as a theme park excludes women, not just women who are EAL speakers or new to this country, but women with literacy difficulties, learning difficulties, many other needs.

And men call this 'inclusion'. When they want to be manipulative bastards and oppress and harm women for their own benefit.

ArthurbellaScott · 29/01/2024 16:18

Well, how are you going to explain what a 'transwoman' is to someone with English as a second language? Or who is not very literate, or who is not conversant with recent developments in 'queering academia and challenging heteronormativity'?

'A man who feels like a woman'?

But we're not allowed to say that. The word 'man' is forbidden.

Try again.

'A woman whose body is different from her feelings'?

'A woman who is unhappy with her body'?

'A woman with men's genitals'?!

NecessaryScene · 29/01/2024 16:22

Well, how are you going to explain what a 'transwoman' is to someone with English as a second language? Or who is not very literate, or who is not conversant with recent developments in 'queering academia and challenging heteronormativity'?

Or a 4- or 7-year-old, thinking of another thread.

DeeLusional · 29/01/2024 16:28

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 29/01/2024 15:04

Really, that sounds like a really roundabout way of doing it. I know we've all heard of questionnaires asking about "gender identity" so I'm surprised they've not just done that. Are they planning on presenting the data that way "50% of she/hers did their A-Levels, compared to 45% of he/hims - and 80% of they/thems! Ze/zirs were also likely to complete further education, with German being a popular subject choice..."

Quite. I've seen "How do you think of yourself: Male, Female, or in some other way". Also "Do you consider yourself to be Trans or have a Trans history.". The Millenium Cohort Study is the first one I've seen asking about pronouns.

Froodwithatowel · 29/01/2024 16:28

It depends, I suppose, on whether you want to help create the illusion that the male person involved would like you to, or be comprehensible, realistic and with some respect for your listener.

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