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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Census ‘hugely overstated’ trans population - Telegraph article

106 replies

xxyzz · 24/09/2023 00:29

Census 'hugely overstated' trans population (telegraph.co.uk)

or

Census 'hugely overstated' trans population (archive.ph)

The Office for National Statistics “hugely overestimated” the number of transgender people in the UK, Whitehall sources have claimed, as the body admitted it could have carried out “additional probing” before releasing the controversial data.

An official inquiry by the Office for Statistics Regulation (OSR) into the census finding that 260,000 people identified as transgender has drawn up several “lessons learned” from the way the data was handled by the ONS.
 
They include a conclusion the ONS should do more to communicate “uncertainty” about the data and should have sought external “quality assurance”.

Twitter thread here: Professor Alice Sullivan on X: ""The Office for National Statistics “hugely overestimated” the number of transgender people in the UK, Whitehall sources have claimed, as the body admitted it could have carried out “additional probing” before releasing the controversial data" t.co/kNtOqExFSq" / X (twitter.com)

Census ‘hugely overstated’ trans population

Office for National Statistics may have lost its 'credibility' to accurately record sex and gender, suggests Whitehall source

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/09/23/census-hugely-overstated-trans-population/

OP posts:
Heliotroper · 24/09/2023 10:08

I would question whether this was mistake or deliberate exercise to inflate the numbers.

Surely it is obvious that questions need to be simple and easily understood? It beggars belief that any unbiased person would think that this one was. There is only one explanation.

popebishop · 24/09/2023 10:18

Heliotroper · 24/09/2023 10:02

“is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”

does this make any sense as a question?

We hear from all sides in this debate that sex is different from gender.

I know what sex I was registered at birth. I know what sex I am now but if gender is different to sex does it have the same categories?

This is the bit I harp on about endlessly. I know it's annoying but someone really needs to answer the question "which genders are "the same as" which sexes"?

Once trans ideologists explicitly acknowledge that "woman gender" is the same as "female" we might start to unpick the logic underlying the whole thing.

Or, if woman and female aren't the same, name the genders that are the same as each sex.

It's impossible to answer otherwise. As we now see.

It baffles me as to why the definition of trans changed from "somebody who wishes to be, and/or to be seen as, the opposite sex". No-one needs a special inner essence to do that.

AutumnCrow · 24/09/2023 10:50

Heliotroper · 24/09/2023 10:02

“is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”

does this make any sense as a question?

We hear from all sides in this debate that sex is different from gender.

I know what sex I was registered at birth. I know what sex I am now but if gender is different to sex does it have the same categories?

My young(ish) adult DC was staying with me during the census (England). We had a full-blown rant at the bloody thing, notably over the stupidity of the questions around 'gender' and religion.

Put it this way: the DC and I know each other pretty bloody well. Yet there we were disagreeing with each other about how each of us should answer certain questions and what the questions 'really' meant.

These are not the signs of a successful census.

AutumnCrow · 24/09/2023 10:58

And another thing. I'm really pissed off with this corrupt, partial, politicised, negligent Civil Service that we are now stuck with for the forseeable.

I had to search for the answer to, 'which politician is responsible for the operation of the Civil Service?'

Since 1968, the Prime Minister of the UK has had this job. So the corruption and degradation of the Civil Service since 2010 has been down to Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak. The stupid fuckers couldn't see what was right in front their faces every day.

Or is it worse than that? I mean, five Prime Ministers in a row, oblivious to the ideological pollution of their own Civil Service? WTAF.

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 11:29

Waitwhat23 · 24/09/2023 09:56

I'm looking forward to finding out exactly how many people wrote 'believer in biology' in the religion section. One researcher has done one small scale poll which indicated a few hundred but I suspect it's much, much more.

Me.

I wrote SEX and BIOLOGY so many times on the census that my pen ran out.

Fukkem, they wanted answers, I gave them answers.

easylikeasundaymorn · 24/09/2023 11:53

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 09:53

I ordered a paper copy of the scottish census and I wrote ALL over that bloody thing, making it perfectly clear what I thought of their shitty gender identity questions and what SEX myself and my family members were.

I also gave them a bit of a lecture about how sodding useless gender identities were when it came to deciding what services the population would need in the future, considering that many of those are SEX dependent.

It was one giant useless virtue signal from beginning to end and whilst I returned it, I doubt they'd have enjoyed my answers. Lowest rate of return ever in Scotland, I believe, under 80%.

My initial proposal for my masters dissertation was on the 1911 census and how it reflected social attitudes (it was the first one in which the actual census papers filled out by the households themselves were retained and not just the summaries the officials compiled). There was lots of stuff like suffragettes/gists using it as an opportunity to protest, people complaining about their living conditions and politicians (and their wives/family members!), the questions asked (because some people felt they were invasive,  as it was the first census to ask about nationality, the duration of their marriage, children born, living, dcd, etc.), and also just some funny stuff like people listing their pets, including their occupations (my favourite was an enumerator who crossed one of these out in big red ink and wrote 'THIS IS A CAT.')

I eventually had to change it quite a bit so it was more general but still have all the research and am thinking of doing something with it some day.

It fascinates me to think hopefully all the modern returns with amendments/notations will be considered by social historians in 100 years and what conclusions they will draw!

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 11:56

Now why didn't I think of listing my 3 cats as occupants? FFS. If a man can register himself as a woman, why don't my cats count?? I now feel I missed an opportunity to expand the census to make it way more meaningful. I will do that next time, assuming we're still floating around in cloud cuckoo land and the census is as crap then as this one.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/09/2023 12:00

#OperationLetThemSpeak.

Where once respected institutions like the ONS sign up to Stonewall and all the other queer theory pressure groups and end up looking like fucking idiots - incompetent, clueless and spouting meaningless gender wibble.

Enraging when they waste so much taxpayer's money to produce these incoherent outcomes.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 24/09/2023 12:10

I thought it had become well established that there was this bizarre link between older people whose main language isn't English and being trans in the census?

It was very clear that the census was worded in such a way that non-English speakers (who come from countries where gender identity doesn't exist) accidentally stated they were trans.

Yet activists jumped on the figure, although the number of gay people in the census disappointed many as the figure had always been inflated to 1 in 10, yet it was coming out at about 1 in 25.

popebishop · 24/09/2023 12:25

I thought it had become well established that there was this bizarre link between older people whose main language isn't English and being trans in the census?

Yes, my first post in this thread quoted the article that mentioned the high population of trans people in Newham and Brent.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 24/09/2023 12:30

If I remember rightly there turned out to be a TW at a high level in the ONS which may or may not have influenced their stance on the questions

Bosky · 24/09/2023 12:55

If the number of "trans people" is massively over-estimated by the ONS Census then is possible if not probable that the number of detransitioners as a proportion is also underestimated?

ResisterRex · 24/09/2023 13:00

PaperWalkAndTalk · 24/09/2023 12:10

I thought it had become well established that there was this bizarre link between older people whose main language isn't English and being trans in the census?

It was very clear that the census was worded in such a way that non-English speakers (who come from countries where gender identity doesn't exist) accidentally stated they were trans.

Yet activists jumped on the figure, although the number of gay people in the census disappointed many as the figure had always been inflated to 1 in 10, yet it was coming out at about 1 in 25.

As documented here:

x.com/mforstater/status/1645012444627222534?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"HOG HEAVEN"

duc748 · 24/09/2023 15:22

The census would have been a lot more useful if they'd included a "I think gender is load of old bollocks" option. I remember I wasn't happy about saying my gender matched my birth sex, cos that implied I was legitimising the whole idea.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 24/09/2023 15:29

I refused to answer the questions, and will continue to do so wherever they are asked (such as by the NHS). Why on earth they need to know my sexual orientation for the Covid jab?

HirplesWithHaggis · 24/09/2023 15:35

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 11:29

Me.

I wrote SEX and BIOLOGY so many times on the census that my pen ran out.

Fukkem, they wanted answers, I gave them answers.

My family and I are "believers in the immutability of sex".

Genesis1v27 · 24/09/2023 15:43

nauticant · 24/09/2023 08:38

Does anyone else have archive.ph blocked by their device? I can't access it on any browser from my laptop but can if I browse via a VPN. It's not a service provider block because my phone can access the website when connected via my home WiFi. Odd and annoying.

Some security software, such as antivirus or other "safe browsing" protections, have blocked the archive.today sites, e.g. Malwarebytes.

mb2512cat · 24/09/2023 15:47

Worth googling ‘Alison Pritchard’ Deputy Director of the ONS. Not obvious from his LinkedIn what his qualifications or experience are in Statistics before being appointed to such a position, but I’m sure he must have some.

Transparent2 · 24/09/2023 16:16

Heliotroper · 24/09/2023 10:02

“is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”

does this make any sense as a question?

We hear from all sides in this debate that sex is different from gender.

I know what sex I was registered at birth. I know what sex I am now but if gender is different to sex does it have the same categories?

The only logical answer for me would be ‘no’, in the same way as if the question was "is your apple the same as your pear?".

TeenEyeroll · 24/09/2023 16:25

Did anyone else lol at this understatement?- I am sensing a tongue in the cheek:

“Earlier this year, academics found those who speak English poorly were five times more likely to be transgender.

Michael Biggs, a professor of sociology at the University of Oxford, claimed that confusion over the question may explain why the London boroughs of Newham and Brent, which have a significant percentage of residents who speak English as a second language, recorded the highest proportion of transgender people in the UK.”

😂

Froodwithatowel · 24/09/2023 16:29

It comes from the same insane stable of management babble that once issued me with a colleague's performance assessment asking me "Does this person get on the bus?" (no buses involved anywhere in the job) "Does this person taste the strawberry?"

I wrote on it, 'I have no idea what information you're looking for'.

I'm sure they thought I was being difficult and negative. But then I thought they were absolute muppets so lost in silly wankery that they couldn't see the reality of the many problems they were lost in, and incapable of doing the job. So ymmv.

Winnading · 24/09/2023 16:29

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 11:56

Now why didn't I think of listing my 3 cats as occupants? FFS. If a man can register himself as a woman, why don't my cats count?? I now feel I missed an opportunity to expand the census to make it way more meaningful. I will do that next time, assuming we're still floating around in cloud cuckoo land and the census is as crap then as this one.

the 2021 england or UK not sure, census was the last one. I added all my pets as adult human females to mine. and made a few up I figured if the ONS wanted to make a mockery of its last census, I was quite happy to help them out.

If you recall it was supposed to be done online via a code sent to you. But you could order paper ones. I ordered 10 paper ones. They only sent me one though. Not sure if they realised I was really planning on going to town on the mockery, or they thought I'd mis typed.

I did have fun with it though.

Froodwithatowel · 24/09/2023 16:30

I don't blame you. If you have to by law participate in creating fiction, it might as well be entertaining fiction.

Baldieheid · 24/09/2023 16:46

Yeah, I refused to do it online. No opportunity to scrawl exactly how stupid I thought the questions were online. Next time I'm adding the cats, if this crap continues.
Future generations will wonder wtf was in the water.

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