Mumsnet campaign on VAWG includes men in their definition of women

[Luno]

I'm not sure if/how I can link to it but under Mumsnet campaigns Women in data have published a survey about violence against women and girls.

It talks about "ALL women", asks for sex assigned at birth and says you can answer on the basis of your "gender identity".

How can any organisation purported to be for the benefit of women include men in their definition of women? All of the data will be inaccurate, unscientific and u representative.

Hugely disappointed and hoping to see response soon!

@MNHQ violence against TW is almost certainly for different reasons (homophobia, transphobia) than VAWG (control, aggression,misogyny). You’re helping no one by mixing these up. Sort it out and do both maybe.

Oh ffs.

😡

Anyone worked out yet how many women have died in violent relationships with men because other men were in the women's refuges and support services, being validated, and excluding women at risk of being killed?

Those women don't have a second option to run to. And no one cares about them.

Apparently we're not even allowed to mention that they exist as women, something entirely separate from anyone born male, with unique experiences and needs and a reality that has nothing to do with the incredibly important and ever centred feelings of men!

Oh for heaven’s sake

shameful MNHQ

violence against women has nothing to do with gender identity and everything to do with sex and you know it

You have GOT to be kidding me. This survey is useless!

Mumsnet response to my reporting of the post: will respond but am out at present:
*Hello

Thanks so much for getting in touch.
As the option to choose is there, we don't think the results will be skewed.
After clicking 'male' you will see this message, refusing entry to the survey:

Thank you for your interest, however you are not eligible to take part.

If you or someone you know is currently experiencing harassment, sexual assault, or violence, we refer you to the resources on the BBC Action Line website.

Very best wishes
Lily MNHQ*

I will be more accurate in my next response!

Am I missing something?
Will transwomen click the “male” button? 🤨

MHHQ you need to be much clearer that this survey is for women only.

Not anyone who “identifies as a woman” but actual women.

Absolutely. TW experience violence for different reasons.

This is absolutely not helpful and comment from MNHQ is needed to explain the reasoning.

How can we have useful data if some of that data is invalid and skews results?

Of course they won't.

(There was a swearword in there, but I took it out.)

Reported MN's own survey.

We all know the deluded men will select that they are women. Because every fucking thing has to validate your delusion.

I mean if you want to do a survey on violence against all people, then just name it that. VAP.

Or Violence Against all People for anyone In Doubt that we're not interested in really addressing violence against women and girls. VAPID.

Re the MNHQ response to Cecily, If you invite those who “identify as women”, but then go on to exclude those who state they are “male” you’re just implying TW are “female”. Not helpful at all.

That survey truly is a masterclass in Garbage In Garbage Out!

And neither mnhq or the survey owners have been on the thread to address the comments from the angry women yet!

I’ve done the survey and because it collects both gender and sex, all the data can be sorted in a way that looks at results for only females separate from any males.

The data collected can be sliced and diced by several demographic factors

• Gender
• Sex
• Age group
• Region of UK
• MP constituency

Its not going to be inaccurate, unscientific or unrepresentative of violence against females because it has asked these demographic questions.

Yes, the survey will also collect data for males as well, but isn’t this the data we have been asking to be collected?

So that we have hard data to debunk the baseless anecdotal claims that transwomen face more violence than females?

How else can it be proven who faces more violence without doing a survey that includes males too? As I said males (transwomen) won’t be lumped in with female women in the analysis and reports because the demographics questions mean they can all be separated out by the researchers.

Oh. Just seen the message…that males get.

“Hello

Thanks so much for getting in touch.
As the option to choose is there, we don't think the results will be skewed.
After clicking 'male' you will see this message, refusing entry to the survey:

Thank you for your interest, however you are not eligible to take part.”

Well that’s rubbish. There’s no point to a survey that establishes a well known fact that VAWG is out of control. What we need is data showing it is still way waaay above what transwomen face. Can’t do that unless transwomen can fill out the survey too in a way that distinguishes them from women.

Pointless survey then.

Plenty of transwomen claim to be female

That’s kind of irrelevant because if we object to a survey because people might lie on it, then what is the point of ever doing any survey about anything ever again? Bye bye CSEW survey on crimes like rape and sexual assault.

Besides, while it is recognised that self-reporting surveys are the least scientifically reliable method for obtaining accurate data they are still better than no data.

How are they going to classify any transmen that respond? As men or women?

The point is that by using terms like "sex assigned at birth" and having a MANDATORY question on gender identity, then saying that people can respond on the basis of their gender identity and not sex, they are clearly indicating that they are signed up to gender ideology so we cannot trust anything they say about men and women.

The data can be sliced and diced so it doesn’t matter. It’s not about classifying.

They can report figures for all “assigned female at birth” people and they can also separate these out into those “assigned female at birth” and identify figures for each subset that identifies as a man, women, nonbinary or prefer not to say.

Why bother with a survey designed to collect data, if that data is going to be bullshit? I mean, what a fucking time waste....

You do realise this is incredibly offensive to most women. I was not assigned anything at birth, because that's bullshit.

Mumsnet knows this.